Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

[fenderlove]

Quick word: I won't be responding with my own opinions to any comments left in this post, so feel free to answer honestly without fear that I shall pounce upon you. I may have further questions to ask.

How would you describe Spike's role in the comics in Season Nine? And to go further, what is his literal role in the comics? What has he literally been doing? What has been clearly asked of him by any other character or characters? The key words for all this are definitely- literal specifics. I'm looking for less interpretation "if you turn it sideways and squint and read between the lines" type of examples and more for just what has been presented.

Like I said above, I won't be responding with my own opinions. I'm just curious to find out if I've missed something in translation.

Comments

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

Scout, I guess? No one's asking anything of him, really (tbh it isn't that organized a Scooby gang in the comics and no one's asking anyone for anything, though Buffy does [canonically] appreciate what he's doing), but he's been hunting down "rumblings" (aka enemies or rumors of such) and reporting them back to Buffy as he learns more- and at one point attempts to bail her out of trouble when he finds out that she's under attack.

Oh, and the one time a Scooby meeting is called, he's texted, but unavailable to show up. It's a more major role than, say, Xander and Dawn's (and usually Willow's), and certainly a more pertinent one (especially considering that the next arc is apparently very Spike-centric and he'll start working with the SFPD), and he's been getting between 2-6ish pages exclusively devoted to his arc per issue in most of the recent comics.

Plus, hints of a bromance with a friendly demon! At least, he's confided in him and they worked together in #4 (and may continue to in the future, as this demon is tied to Buffy).

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Has anyone directly asked him to stay in San Francisco, or is it more of a thing where he recognizes that he might be of some assistance in the future based on the "rumblings?"

I hadn't heard that he was going to be working with the SFPD. Is that from interviews with the DH staff?

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"Has anyone directly asked him to stay in San Francisco"

No not really. The nearest we got was Buffy asking him if he was going to hang around now after coming back on the bug ship. Nothing out in the open as per.

Call me cynic but I don't think anyone would care If he was there or not.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Well, she did say she might miss him if he were dead...

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

*gasp* Yes, so thats alright then eh? *g*

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Wait, she said she'd miss him if he were dead instead of if he went away or left SF? That actually sounds sorta rude... or just another example of Buffy having no tact whatsoever. I mean, Spike's already dead. He is an undead Englishman. He is an ex-poet. He has ceased to be. He is no longer pining for the fjords... Well, maybe he does pine for the fjords.

[rahirah]

Context: Buffy says she wishes that destroying the Seed had taken away all magic, so that vampires would disappear and she'd no longer be the Slayer. Spike says that if that happened, he'd be dead and she wouldn't be as much fun. Buffy replies that fun is over-rated, but she supposes she'd miss him if he were dead.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

So it just starts out as Buffy having no tact. Didn't destroying the Seed actually take away all the magic already? Did she mean all the things already effected by magic after all the regular magic got sucked out?

[rahirah]

The seed only eliminated magic that has to be channeled from elsewhere, apparently, by closing Earth off from other dimensions. So witches and wizards have lost their powers, and no new slayers can be called. Newly turned vampires are mindless beasts, because the demon that animates them can no longer get to Earth and fully inhabit their bodies, but must remote control them from their home hell dimension. But existing Slayers and vampires keep their powers.

i.e. it's arbitrary, makes no real sense at all, and it's set up so the writers can do whatever they want.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

You know, I read a fic one time that said that the reason that Spike had so much of his humanity left was because his body was inhabited by a wee baby demon instead of one of the scary fully matured ones. Then again, Spike had survival skills, cunning, and agility, and if that's what you get from having a baby demon, then the bumbling newly-risen vamps we saw on the show got screwed by having full grown ones. I really liked that fic though. I have no idea where I was going with this, but what you said reminded me of it.

I just keep thinking that the writers have never and will never understand what in God's name the vampires of this universe are. One minute they have humanity, the next minute they're raving animals. The show has tumbled back and forth about what they are and what they mean. If Buffy's Lie to Me description of "The demon sets up shop in your old house, and it walks like you and it has your memories, but it's not you" is true, then why are vampires troubled by their human lives? Why do they care? Why can their feelings be hurt by things that happened when they were human? Why do they have feelings at all? It makes the case of Angel's soul all the more baffling and confusing. It's Liam's soul added to a demon that somehow doesn't act anything like the demon acted before when really human souls seem to make very little difference to human behavior. That's all compounded by Spike who remains relatively unfazed by having a soul at the point that he gets one. Either Spike and (God help me) Harmony are just more evolved vampire beings, or something amiss. And now the vampires are remote controlled zombies even though if all the walls are closed down so the demons can't get through, how can they be remotely controlling anything? This is the kind of thing that Lewis Black said will make your brain explode if you think too hard about it.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

why are vampires troubled by their human lives? Why do they care? Why can their feelings be hurt by things that happened when they were human? Why do they have feelings at all?

The interpretation that works best for me:

The 'demon' controlling a vampire is little more than pure id. It has hungers and desires, it can fear and hate, and it's cruel and sadistic. But by itself it has no memories, so it's difficult to call it sapient. Instead, like a parasite it uses its host human's memories as its own. That's why vampires often take on the personalities of the human they once were: the demon doesn't know any different, and so it can only see the world through the filter of the human's memories and experiences. They shape its personality; but the demon's own primal urges in turn shape and distort the personality in a different direction.

(A soul quite possibly works the same way: it's the vital spark that animates a human, but by itself it has no intelligence or memory, only a set of urges and desires. Unlike a demon, though, the soul's urges are mostly benevolent and empathetic and humane.)

[rahirah]

Well, I did say it made no sense at all. *g*

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

I'd think the latter, though he doesn't seem to have any desire to leave- we don't know where he's staying yet (with the bugs?) , but I'd assume it's somewhere nearby since he goes to hang out at Buffy's party in the first issue and tends to be wandering the city at night. So it looks like San Francisco is his home, now, too, and it'd be a big deal if he left (like it was when Willow did this past issue).

From the solicitation to #7:
Still seeking normalcy in the midst of zompire-stricken San Francisco, Buffy contemplates a life-changing decision the likes of which few Slayers have ever faced. Meanwhile Spike rushes to the aid of Detective Dowling, who’s in over his head with his recent investigation into the undead bloodsuckers plaguing the city.

(The cover to that comic also features Dowling and Spike facing a horde of demons, with Buffy standing in the background.)

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Well I think It's taken that that damn stupid space ship is still hanging around somewhere fro him to park his arse in now and again.

As to the rest well thats not in response to anyone actually asking him to do that. To me It comes across as Spikes got nothing else better to do/go and he still feels at least something for her. But because of how the writings been so far I have no idea what she thinks about this at all apart from maybe he's 'handy'.

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

No, it isn't. But I don't think that Buffy's going over to Dawn's apartment and asking her to stick around- and she clearly isn't doing that for Willow, either. Idk, I don't go over to my friends and specifically ask that they stay in town, either, because they haven't expressed any desire to leave in the first place, plus, I'd think it's kind of selfish to hold them back if they wanted to (even if they didn't).

The fact that Buffy even asked for reassurance that Spike was staying (in the online comic) is more than she's done for anyone else, and only because he's been away and she doesn't take his presence for granted.

I agree with you. I think that Spike's looking for purpose, and he finds one working with the good guys in San Francisco- be they Buffy or the SFPD. It isn't a character flaw to want to do the right thing.

This is a panel in which Buffy thanks Spike for looking out for her.



We're doing this without interpretation, so I have no further official words on it, but she seems to be happy that he's there for her (and she openly admits that she'd miss him on the prior page, so if we're only taking the comics at face value, that seems confirmation that she likes him, not just his work- as is the fact that she invites him to a party in the first issue).

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Yeah apparently she likes him. Bit sad that we can't learn more about where she's coming from then that, but hey I don't expect much from this at all I'm afraid.,

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

Well, it's only Issue 5, and Jeanty's told us that they're going to have some kind of ~moment~ together next issue. I'd say that they're building it slowly so it'll be more satisfying in the end, but I (as Spuffy shipper) have been very pleased with the natural development of the relationship up until now. Love declarations this early on don't bode well for the ship or characters at large. (They tend to end with father figures getting murdered and catatonic characters. ;D)

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Sorry I hate to sound negative yet again, but from experience I don't trust Jeantys judgment on these sort of things at all I'm afraid. His idea 'moment' could be anything.

As to declarations of love. Oh dear I somehow doubt we're going to get that......ever. I think Whedon has other plans.

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

He compares it to the scene between them at the end of Fool For Love, though. So even if it doesn't come nearly as close, it'll still be satisfying. (Jeanty does tend to exaggerate! But he doesn't lie...)

I don't mind if there aren't ever declarations of love in the comics, cathartic as they might be. So far, we have a Buffy who isn't afraid of telling Spike that she appreciates him or that she'd miss him, and we have a Spike who's said on his own that he has feelings for her. If they're going to utterly destroy all of that, it's going to take a lot more than a season (short of the very doubtfully repeated Twangel route). Instead, they're giving us Buffy and Spike, working together on equal footing. I have no problems with that, regardless of whether or not it turns to romance.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Okay, let's recount. Barring my drastically different interpretations of the final scenes in S8 and the online comic, in S9, Buffy has thanked Spike for watching her back and has said she'd miss him if he left or if he was gone. She's counting him as part of the team by text-messaging him to meetings. Buffy hasn't specifically asked him to stay or to help, but she hasn't asked for anyone else to stay or help either. I'm assuming that Spike has had no other main character interactions than with Buffy alone, at this point (I think there was a scene with Buffy and Willow, maybe)?

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

Yep- though he has interacted quite a bit with new character Eldreh Koh and a bit with Buffy's roommate Tumble, while Willow and Xander/Dawn haven't interacted with each other at all (maybe in the first issue?) and Xander/Dawn have only interacted with one of the bad guys (at the meeting he missed) and Buffy. So if we're keeping scorecards, he's next under Buffy in terms of relevance (though even that number is pretty low, since it's been a Buffy-centric arc).

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Interesting to note. Thanks!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

This.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

In the short webcomic by Jane Espenson, when Spike returns from outerspace, Buffy asks him if he's "home" for good now. So, I'd say she's given him strong implications for wanting him around. At least, in the sense that this is "home" aka where she thinks he belongs.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

I've read the webcomic, but from what I've gathered thus far, within Season Nine itself, Spike has no prime directive outside of doing what he thinks will protect Buffy and being ready to answer her calls if she needs him. She's not asking anything of him directly, but it's possible that Spike interpreted what Buffy said in the webcomic (no matter how irritated her face was drawn in that scene by Jeanty) as a sign that he was wanted, so he may not feel justified in leaving SF even if he wanted to... but that dives into speculative and interpretation territory on my part.

It's quite interesting to read all the answers I've gotten to my questions. Unfortunately, I don't have the consensus I was hoping for. You know, when comics are the medium best suited for getting into a character's head directly (thought boxes are amazing when well-used), it doesn't seem that they're truly being utilized for BtVS as represented by the varying degrees of motivations and reasonings for character behavior I've gotten. The main thing that is consist is- Spike will stay where Buffy is because of (insert reason A, B, C, or D). I'm just not sure what that means for him, if it's a positive or negative thing, or how it makes me feel as a fan based on my own expectations and views of the character.