Have you ever felt like you were sorta alone in your fandom opinions? Sometimes, I feel awkward asking fandom questions for fear that it might unintentionally offend someone. I'm trying to stop arguing on the internet because Tara threatened that if I didn't stop she was going to make sure that my grave marker would read, "She argued on the Internet. A lot."

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Haha! We're in a very fabulous fandom boat. ... I think I am too young to have the kind of high blood pressure that I have, and it's all the Internet's fault. XD

From: [identity profile] lilithbint.livejournal.com


I decided long ago that the only opinion that mattered was my own and arguing wasn't going to change it.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I think what happens is that I see posts and I start to read comments and then I realize that an overwhelming swell of people have the same opinion and have OUTRAGE over something... but I have the completely opposite opinion and in no way did I interpret a scene or characterization the way that this huge number of people did. It doesn't make me want to change my opinion or change theirs... but sometimes I want to ask why they think the way they do, mostly out of curiosity because I can't understand it. I be perplexed. XD

From: [identity profile] lilithbint.livejournal.com


I decided it was easier just to accept that people as a collective are dumb. Lots of them are sheep and will think what they think they're supposed to think and the others like the status quo and don't like people rocking their world view. I work with a number of older women and I could just slap them most days but meh... I just don't have the energy to argue and prefer to inhabit my slightly smug superiority complex instead. It's comfortable in here.
*hugs* it's frustrating some days isn't it?

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


*hugs* It is frustrating. But look! Baby Koalas! (http://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/2011/07/koala-joeys-galore-for-australias-dreamworld.html)

The baby koalas help me with my frustration... but I feel like I have to make a lot of invisible posts that no one will ever see to just keep myself sane. I think I need to read more fanfic and stay away from non-fanfic fandom posts because I am losing my mind. I think it's just been one of those long, weird days.

From: [identity profile] lilithbint.livejournal.com


dawww... stoned bebe psychopaths... James probably looked quite similar at birth...

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


LOL. With the ears and the boopable nose and the fuzziness... XD
shapinglight: (Default)

From: [personal profile] shapinglight


It's always difficult marching to a different drummer. Good for you for doing it, though.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I think I let my curiosity get the better of me, so I start to ask people questions about their opinions... and I think I must come off as very abrasive. I really don't mean to. I'm still getting private messages from people who just cannot let go of something I said years and years ago on a message board that has long since been disbanded. *sigh*
liliaeth: (Default)

From: [personal profile] liliaeth


It's not just you.

Hell, when I'm in a Torchwood fandom post, I barely dare admit that I don't miss Ianto and never really gave him a second thought. The way people act about him, it often seems like you're committing blasphemy by saying so.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


You mean you don't wish death upon Russell T. Davies because he killed Woobie Jesus? I'm shocked!

Just kidding, of course. XD I feel your pain.

I think the main problem I've been having for the last year is that I want people to understand that when I criticize Buffy I am not criticizing anyone personally. I understand that people identify with her, but I feel like identifying with someone doesn't make me that person. I am my own person, and more importantly, I am not a fictional person. I am a non-fictional person, and I can identify with fictional people without getting upset when someone criticizes that fictional person's actions. I just hate feeling like I'm stomping on someone when I lay out my dislike of Buffy as a character, which is really what my fandom emo-ness and all this stems from. *has a sad* :(
rahirah: (Default)

From: [personal profile] rahirah


A large proportion of the Bad Fandom Experience I've had boiled down to someone identifying so strongly with their favorite character that any criticism of that character was taken as a personal attack. (And if you think it's bad in BtVS fandom...oh, the Elfquest fandom stories I could tell...)



From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I concur. I must admit I don't know that much about ElfQuest fandom, but I've heard stories...
rahirah: (Default)

From: [personal profile] rahirah


It was SO much worse because we were all writing OCs.

Writer A: They hate my character because she's [insert disorder]! And I'm [insert disorder], so they hate me and all other [insert disorder] people!

Editor!Me: Um, no, they hate your character because she's a raging Mary Sue woobie villain whom you have capturing, torturing, and stealing from their characters, and who always has to have the last word and be best at everything, and all of whose faults they're supposed to forgive instantly because she's so misunderstood, and you keep foisting storylines in which she totally pwns their characters on them without consulting them beforehand. If you'd just -

Writer A: AHAH! YOU HATE [insert disorder] PEOPLE TOO!

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Writer A: They hate my character because she's [insert disorder]! And I'm [insert disorder], so they hate me and all other [insert disorder] people!

Oh, my lord... That's exactly what happened with the whole rage that started off my inbox getting spammed and trolled for almost two years now. *cowers and hides*
rahirah: (Default)

From: [personal profile] rahirah


Uh huh. I recognized the symptoms when it started happening here on LJ and I backed the hell off from the people who were doing it. Not always far enough, because I can't always control my desire to argue with people who are being Wrong On The Internet, but I gave it the old college try.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I'm trying to be better about it. I do think that I want the epitaph on my crypt vault to read, "I wish I spent more time arguing on the Internet." It's either that or "I hate these curtains." XD

From: [identity profile] diebirchen.livejournal.com


Feeling passionate about one's own opinions is just dandy, but feeling that all other must agree or else is wrong on so many levels that I won't bother enumerating them.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


That's exactly how I feel. Actually, that's usually what I want to say to people during discussions. I want to gold-plate it on a sampler. I don't expect others to agree with an unpopular opinion or change their minds, but I sometimes would like them to not treat me like a pariah because of those opinions. I think the straw that broke this half-camel's back was when I was told that I was "anti-feminist" and that I must "hate people with mental and/or emotional problems" to have some opinions when the discussion had been far from that. Conversation dissolved into people making assumptions about my personal life, and I got pissed. Cue almost two years of trolls emailing me about it and me constantly having to ban and report people from my email and my LJ just to be left alone for a few days. And then I sit back and think as I check my blood pressure, "This was over a TV show." *sigh*

From: [identity profile] diebirchen.livejournal.com


Well yeah, but that's a vague statement that could mean a wide variety of things. What precisely do they mean by "anti-feminist" and to what was that a reaction? It's still no reason to be vitriolic, but in the end, much as I love it, yeah -- TV show.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Very, very long story short, they meant I was "anti-feminist" because I believe that Buffy is a hero but that she is not a role model (all the while pointing out that I also believe most pop culture heroes to be heroes and not role models, i.e. Batman, Superman, etc). What separates the two ideas is that while her heroic deeds and bravery make her a hero, some of her behavior make it impossible for me to endorse her as a role model, and, to me, that's okay and doesn't negate her hero status.

It's one of the reasons that when there's a discussion post, if I note too many opinions dissenting from mine I just don't post anything even if what I would like to say doesn't seem that inflammatory 'cause it's not worth another kerfluffle anymore even if I'd really like to join in the conversation.

From: [identity profile] diebirchen.livejournal.com


Hmmmmmm! Well, I think that Buffy is in some senses an excellent role model, and in others not. In Buffyverse, essentially all characters are flawed to one degree or another, which is precisely true of all people. I'd be hard pressed to think of something truly negative to say about Tara or Amanda besides being usually too self-effacing, but they are human and, by nature, not perfect. Most of the characters have differing levels of unkindness, cruelty, selfishness, bigotry, hubris, egocentricity, dishonesty, narrow-mindedness, criminality, vanity, and so on. Whedon's main characters are usually painted in varying shades of grey. I agree that a hero is a hero based on heroic deeds, but only the most unexamined life can be seen as praiseworthy in all aspects. We humans are by nature flawed creatures, a thing Whedon knows.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I agree that a hero is a hero based on heroic deeds, but only the most unexamined life can be seen as praiseworthy in all aspects.
Exactly! I suppose I could say that for those exact reasons is why I don't believe anyone could ever truly be a role model for anyone else, that people need to build their fulfillment upon themselves. Specifically, for Whedon's characters, I see a lack of self-reflection (and not just for the vampiric pun). They don't really learn from their mistakes; they just seem to get stuck in these self-destructive loops where nothing gets resolved and they just hurt themselves and others further, and I don't see that as role-model-y. I couldn't see myself pointing out Buffy or any Whedonverse character to a group of children as a role model... Maybe Fred or Tara... Then again, I couldn't point out Beowulf, Launcelot, Batman, Superman, or really any fictional character as a role model either. If one ignores or excuses the flaws, especially flaws which hurt others, then one is building an image of a role-model that doesn't exist, putting that person on a pillar without really acknowledging why they don't need to be up there on said pillar, then it's like one has just created a new character.
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From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Never let anyone tell you how to ship your ship. I'm neither a Bangel nor a Spuffy, but I could definitely see how someone could be both or even, as you said, a Spuffy who thinks that Buffy's true love is Angel.

As to the nativity creche, I am completely on your side on that. My mom works for the state and she has a hard time reminding people that in their cubicles at DHS that they are supposed to keep religious iconography to a minimum. Fat chance of that happening there. Angels and crosses everywhere in what is supposed to be a neutral place so that people feel comfortable.

The opinion that kicked off my emoness last night was I suddenly realized that most people feel that Buffy was kicked out of her house in S7. To me, no one forced her to go. They gave her an ultimatum (I hate ultimatums), but she had a choice in what she was doing. Either stay, rest, and listen to the others and their opinions or go. She chose to go break into someone's home and scare them into leaving instead of acknowledging how terrible her tactical decisions had been and getting some sleep in a relatively safe place. I don't feel like that's kicking her out of the house.
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From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I hate ultimatums as well, which is why I don't like the scene, but I do think it would have been funny if she had just plonked herself down in the middle of the living room and said, "Make me." 'Cause really? Would they? They didn't really want her to leave; they wanted her to breath for a few minutes and be regular "Buffy" again like they always do when they are floundering. Of course, there'd still be the problem with two sides, but eventually Spike would have come back with Andrew and the issue would have gotten forced.

I think one of my problems with the show is that every time there's an "intervention" for Buffy (there's been three, specifically, I think) is that they are staged by her friends and family so ineptly and then Buffy looks better, like the writers are trying to force sympathy and make the audience forget about why the intervention was actually necessary and that a better attempt to help her might have actually helped instead of causing more hurt and distrust.

And this probably speaks more to my problems with perceived "specialness," I generally dislike main characters. I don't like that it's all about them and that they are always proven right in the end even when they've acted horribly and treated people like crap. Three of fandoms leave me feeling this way, and they all have the main characters' names in the titles. It's a sign!

The thought of a theocracy gives me the willies! O_O;;;

ETA: For my spelling.
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From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I do believe that "it's Buffy's show" is what ruins the show for me because whereas in other stories the main characters aren't aware they are in a story or that it is specifically "their" story, Buffy and the supporting characters on her show seem to be aware that it is her show. They just bow down to her for the most part until they can't take anymore. Buffy somehow convinced Xander to put a chloroform-soaked rag over her sister's face! No other character could have gotten him to do that. (And did Buffy or Xander realize just how volatile and dangerous chloroform is? People accidentally overdosed on it all the time, which is why it is no longer used in operating rooms.)

*much hugs!*
rahirah: (Default)

From: [personal profile] rahirah


As of S8, I think you're probably right - Buffy always has and always will love Angel more. Do I like that? No. But I don't see any point in denying it. Right now, I'd rather Spike in canon get over her and get a life of his own. But I'm always going to like Spuffy better, and think that IF Buffy had been able to get over her issues and give Spike a chance, they would have made a better couple. And I will happily write fanfic to that effect.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I've given up on canon. It hurts my brain too much. XD
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