Season One, Retcons, and Souls. A Ponderment by Fender.

[fenderlove]

My thoughts are all a-flame over a conversation on the IDW Forum about souls in the Buffyverse. Can souls be involuntarily taken away? We saw Buffy get half of hers involuntarily sucked out in S4, and we know that the Mayor voluntarily sold his, but can the average Jane-or-Joe on the street have their soul taken away against their will in the 'verse?

How do you feel about Season One of BtVS? Do you ignore it? Is it okay to ignore it because of writer/director interviews? Because some stuff gets retconned later, do you pretend that those earlier instances didn't happen or do you find your own personal explanation? Do you have an explanation from a writer, actor, or director that you point to as how you explain particular retcons? Do you have a explanation from another fan (a fansplanation, if you will) that you use? Is it fair to argue that because a writer/director/actor says one thing that flies in the context of the show that one's explanation is somehow more correct than someone only using the show as a basis for their side of the discussion?

Is there really a concrete mythology of the Buffyverse? Or do you believe it can change when the writers/directors decide that it needs to change or it's convenient to change?

F**king magnets. How do they work?

Talk to me. Tell me what you think. :D

Comments

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Most fans rejected this idea when I posted it and thought it lessened Spike's story...but I thought it would have enhanced it.

I remember when the spoilers leaked about Spike's soul, and I was brassed off about it. I didn't really want him to have it 'cause he didn't need it, and it was hard to basically be told how wrong I was, day in and day out, and that I was a horrible person for not seeing that this was the only way Spike could be a "real hero." *shakes head* Sigh, I don't miss the "good old days" of fandom, no way.

To refer to it as a (demon) soul makes it sound more holy, and they were a religious bunch in their own way, weren't they?
Well, they were a heretical bunch towards the Catholics predominantly. It's the word "soul" that bothers me. They were speaking so reverently of the word, and then to basically spit and vomit it out later just seems out of place. Instead of "My soul is your soul" why not "my demon is your demon" or even "my spirit is your spirit?" It just really bothers me when I hear it.

As I mentioned in some of the other comments above, Darla has another S1-related semi-retcon. She very eloquently says how she feels about Angel in S1, but then later says that she never could have loved him. Maybe she meant that she could never have the true love hearts and flowers kind of feelings for him or that their love, when soulless, is not pure love or more of a perverted love. I like to believe that they did love one another. And it's easy to say different things when you're in different states of temperament or situations even if one feels the opposite way, so both her statements about loving Angel and not being able to love might be true in those moments to her. That's my interpretation, of course. Spike, ironically, adamantly said that demons cannot change, yet it's obvious that a lot of demons evolved to fit within the "normal" world and Spike himself evolved constantly.

I think one problem I see is that people are quick to say, "Well, obviously you didn't watch the same show I did" or "What show were you watching?" when they hear a different or weird opinion about the show. Lord knows I've heard it enough times from people (mostly because I don't have a favorable opinion of Chosen). I think I saw too much on IDW's forum of arguments being made, evidence being presented to the contrary, and instead of both sides just admitting that there's room for more than one interpretation (especially when people can't decide if sources outside the show can be used in a debate instead of what was contextual shown on screen), it just devolves into locked threads and madness, which is why I posted the questions on here from the arguments other posters were making- I wanted to see if they truly were how other people felt. It's been an interesting read thus far!

[kerry-220.livejournal.com]

I think one problem I see is that people are quick to say, "Well, obviously you didn't watch the same show I did" or "What show were you watching?" when they hear a different or weird opinion about the show.

Sorry, just jumping into your argument here. I don't believe that your opinion is at all unusual. Comments like that are just arrogant and intimidating and dead annoying. If I've read correctly, fans left the show when Spike got the soul. Was it the Redemptionistas (?) who avidly believed Spike was redeemable without the soul. I've read well thought out pieces that show how and believe that Spike was only given a soul in the end as an easy 'out' - giving their investment in Angel's story validity and allowing Spike to love and be loved. I think it was Barb who said that it was ironic that the soul was exactly the reason that this couldn't happen.

I think souled!Spike has been around so long now, that arguments against it are seen as contradictory to the mythology (and leading to such "What were you watching" comments.) I say hooray to Lynch and others for giving it a go - even if it isn't for long.

By the by, Mariah's "Spike is unique and his journey is not about Angel's" made me say "Oh Yeah!" It was a little embarrassing, but no-one saw :)

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

I think once the "You didn't watch the show correctly" comments enter a debate it's all over from there.

If I've read correctly, fans left the show when Spike got the soul. Was it the Redemptionistas (?) who avidly believed Spike was redeemable without the soul.
I can't remember a lot of fans leaving about the soul at the time, but a lot of people left after Seeing Red. As far as Redemptionistas, there were a lot of different kinds, if I remember correctly- those that just wanted Spike redeemed no matter what, those that wanted him redeemed while unsouled, those that wanted him to have a soul, etc.

After Spike got souled, there were those who felt conflicted about it. For me, it was like once he had it, I didn't want him to lose it because it was what the Spike-haters wanted because they could use it as an excuse to dismiss every good thing he did, and yet I didn't want him to have the soul in the first place. I was so conflicted! XD

I'm glad that Mariah can recognize that both Angel and Spike have their own journeys that are unique to each fella. :D