This is very late, but here it is... in all its rage-filled glory. Word of warning to those that adored this issue- I didn't, and I make no bones about showing my displeasure in great detail. If I could grade this issue lower than an "F" I would. Wait, I can. I give this issue an "H" for haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate as well as head-desk. I also warn you because I am filled with PMS cramps, a horrible staph infection in my arms which makes it painful to type, and I got no sleep last night because I watched too many Friday the 13th movies on AMC. Today I am made of pure bitch... and I kinda like it.



Buffy the Vampire Slayer #37: Last Gleaming, Part Two.

This story is just about as dumb as a box of hair. I actually didn't want to do this review 'cause I felt like people were acting like they got the best birthday present they ever got and I'd just be pissing all over it, but I can't pretend I'm happy at all with this. It just gets more and more ridiculous, almost defiantly stupid. I feel like this is some Kafkaesque experiment in "how much can my audience take before they bring out the pitchforks and torches?" on Whedon's part. There's even giant bugs. How appropriate.

The Review:

More with Buffy being portrayed as a complete and utter moron. She's surprised that a ship has hot water? Really? I guess she'd also be surprised that ocean liners are made of metal yet float on water too. Also, how is anything that happened NOT her fault at least partially if we were to believe that the Glowhypnol is a totally fanon concoction and the actual writers say that she was completely under her own free will? There's a lot that's her fault, specifically. While Buffy instantly denies her culpability and proclaims that the Universe set her up, she really has no direct proof of that. She has assumptions and takes what Angel told her as gospel with no corroboration. She believes it because she wants it to be true; she doesn't want to believe that a conscious choice she made has led to such a horrible catastrophe that could have easily been avoided, even though she admits to it a few moments later in her fantasy. Speaking of...

Guess what? Spike's still Buffy's "dark place," and that's supposed to be a compliment. But when did being Buffy's dirty little secret that's so horrible that she believes her friends will all desert her if they find out because Buffy thinks so little of her pals become a compliment? We see what Spike is to Buffy in perfect clarity- the guy to be there and be her dildo. That's all she wants out of him. He's nothing- NOTHING- to her besides a place to hide from reality. We're supposed to find her behavior what? Cute? Funny? Am I supposed to be happy that Spike has been relegated to being placated with moronic platitudes and then be reduced to the most basic marital aid? The sad thing is Buffy knows how to hurt him, how to play him for her own pleasure and that's exactly what she's fantasizing about. Hell, she just told Angel that she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him, and then she has so little brainpower that she can't stop herself from imagining Spike as her peroxided magic bullet? Buffy has no regrets about what she did with Angel, no desire to take back anything that she said or did, and yet there she is wanting Spike's penis too. That's just greedy.

You know, if Spike was in her place, and he was fantasizing about Drusilla five minutes after boning Buffy and telling her how much he loves her over all others? People would be calling Spike a dog, a player, a scoundrel, but because Buffy's a woman and this comic is all about "grrl power" I'm not supposed to be able to criticize her behavior. I am going to criticize her behavior. Fidelity thy name is not Buffy. She can blame it on "the wind" or a "switch" but when you get down to it this is the Buffy that's always been here, the same girl that can't make up her damn mind and choose. You don't recommit to a guy and then just start fantasizing about someone else. That's cheap and demeaning to both Angel and Spike. Like I said, if a guy character was doing this, no one would claim that it was natural or that it is normal. They'd complain that he was being made into an immature frat boy who can't get enough pussy. Buffy is not different because she's a woman. She needs to be held to the same standard. It's not okay for her to flip-flop just because she's female and we need to protect her right to be sexually free. She's already sexually free. No one is criticizing her for having sex. Everyone should be criticizing her for her horrendous timing. We see a woman who has no consideration for other's feelings. Men are the same to her, useless pieces of flesh, like Ken dolls with interchangeable heads. You can bet that when this is all over Buffy will have changed her mind again about spending the rest of her life with Angel. "It's just too much! So many bad memories!" she'll weep. Or, you know, she could just slam the door in Angel's face once she realizes he has a kid 'cause at least that would fit the theme of the whole abandonment text.

Oh, sure, I could wank some meta so fast your head would spin. I could turn that whole scene to mean that Spike's always been Buffy's one TWU WUV because his peen is just the right size. In fact, I could come up with a long essay about how Spike and Buffy's house-crashing sex is a metaphor for the Wizard of Oz , which means that Spike represents hearth, heart, and home, and Buffy just needs to click her heels (i.e. missionary sex) to realize that he's where she needs to be, but that would negate the fact that Buffy's acting like a horny sponge and Spike's being a jerk. This ain't no fairy tale. There's no magical hidden meaning of heroic mythos, harkening back to legends and journeys of old. It's Joss being Joss, and he sucks at his job. It's the same old story about what's going in Buffy's lady parts mattering more than a coherent story.

Spike, for his part, is very no-nonsense, very Spartan. I think he's steeled himself for the job ahead, not to be distracted by his own feelings. He doesn't have time for her pitiful excuses or her idiotic daydreaming. In the long and short of it, Spike is being quite mean, but in my opinion it's well-deserved. He has no idea what she's thinking, but he knows that she should have more important matters on than brain than what she's most likely thinking about (he was right, technically, but he got the casting all wrong). Since there's so little time to do any kind of explanation as to how Spike came to any of the information he's presenting as fact, we have to accept his word for it, but it also makes Spike sound like a royal jackass in how he's talking down to people.

At least Spike tries to prevent Buffy from doing something immensely stupid. He doesn't succeed, but at least she won't be alone as she launches herself foolishly out of his steampunk ship. Who the hell does that?! I sorta wish one of those military planes would have clipped her and sent her face-first into the bloody dirt. Has she just given up on common sense now? Am I giving her too much credit by assuming she once had common sense? Am I suppose to be reacting "Oh, golly gee, that Buffy! Look at her jumping out of that ship! She's so brave and impetuous, not caring about the safety of others or the leadership role she represents! Oh, and she's happy that Spike's sorta touching her bum! That means she loves him!" kind of way? What am I supposed to be taking away from this story besides a bunch of regret that I watched a show that came from the mind of a madman (and not in a charming Lovecraftian category of mad either)?

The Seed is the source of all magic in the world. It's older than older, older than the First. The Seed created the world, and then came the Primordium, with Illyria and the Old Ones, that the Seed caused to spill out from a random hell dimension. The Seed also apparently kept the Old Ones at war but kept them from leaving this dimension (which is a complete contradiction from what we learn from Drogyn and Illyria about why the Old Ones either left this dimension or retired to the Deeper Well... also being an Old One was supposed to mean that you easily slipped from dimension to dimension). Spike says that as long as the corky Seed stays in the Hellmouth, things stay as they should be with the worlds not bleeding into one another (which already happened with Dawn's blood, so the seed's not that grand at its job), which doesn't make a whole lot of sense what with things constantly going in and coming out of the Hellmouth. Also, why is it in the Sunnydale Hellmouth? Why not the Ohio one? Seems like hiding in a larger, more bustling city would be a better hidey-hole We also learn through Willow's snakey pal that the heroes have to stop Twilight from removing or destroying the egg or there could be dire consequences. Are there any other kind? For those keeping track:

1. Seed in Hellmouth- dimensional walls stay up for the most part creating paths for magic, vampires, and humans co-mingle.
2. Remove the Seed from Hellmouth- dimensional walls break down entirely, earth is destroyed, a new world is ushered in.
3. Destroy the Seed- dimensional walls stay sealed up forever, destroying the paths for the magic to exist on earth. Slayers already called would stay, vampires, etc.

Why does the world really need magic and demonic entities from other realms? In Season Seven, Willow talked about all the magic running through the Earth. There's a hole in the world for a reason- it doesn't negate anything; it connects everything. There is something so beautiful in wholeness created by what should be a void, and Whedon just ruins it all but saying that all that interconnectivity wouldn't exist without some stupid glowing egg. All the witches in the world draw their power from "elsewhere" so not only must Willow make sure that Twilight is stopped from removing the egg but that Buffy must protect it.

Giles worries about why he didn't recognize that the Seed was in Sunnydale. To which Fender asks, who would? We've never heard of this thing until now, doesn't make any kind of sense in the scope of either BtVS or Ats, and is just about the dumbest, most retconniest plot device I've ever heard of. Oh, Twilight was just an inevitability? No, nothing is ever an inevitability, except death and even Destiny makes exceptions. I believe that there are only two absolutes in this life: One, never get involved in a land war in Asia, and two, never give Joss Whedon total creative control. Everything else is up in the air. Apparently the Exposition Champions of the World, Giles and Spike, are the only people who will come to the correct conclusion about what "must be done" to protect the Seed, which will likely be someone's gonna have to die... probably Dawn. Oh, come on, you know Dawn's gonna die. Xander totally doomed her by making plans for the future.

I'm not really sure Giles grasps why Faith is upset. Why does he assume she's upset because she won't be needed anymore? If he thinks that, his marbles are rattled worse than I thought. I tend to read it more as Faith is more disappointed in Buffy than anything. Then again, nothing in this book is as it should be, so she could just be grumpy that Spike's ship was serving enchiladas instead of sloppy joes that day.

Angel is totally oblivious to Buffy's mental escapades while he "helps" other Slayers around the world... and by help, he douses them in blood and basically usurps their efforts to stand around like a big hero. Quickly, to the Angel Mobile! Away! In a way, Angel is sort of acting as Buffy is. He's so wrapped up in himself in the same way that Buffy was all shower-ready, so consumed with their own needs and wants that they truly aren't seeing the big picture even when it's right in front of their fucking faces. Angel says he needs "this" as he swoops down to a fight scene, but what is "this?" The saving people? Seeing the aftereffects of his most selfish, reckless endeavor? The acting like a complete and utter douchebag? The escape from most of his responsibilities? The ability to just pummel things to his heart's content? What is "this?"

In the end, we have the unlikely Protector of the Seed (which sounds dirty) turn out to be the Master... the Master who wanted to get out of Sunnydale, get out of the underground bunker he was trapped in... who spent the years prior to 1937 traveling the world. Who was the Protector of the Seed prior to 1937 before the Master got trapped inside the old Spanish Mission? Was the Master carrying it around in a carpet bag? No, wait, it had to stay in the Hellmouth... even though the Master was trapped in the Spanish Mission unconnected to the Hellmouth under the old SHS Library... Kinda hard to protect something when you're completely jammed into a cavern several city blocks away from the object you're supposed to be protecting. Did he get the job after 1997 when he died the last time? Like, did he get to come back from dusty talc bones in return for being the Seed's Protector? Something tells me that the union benefits must suck ass.

And so, because Buffy's birth metaphor wouldn't be complete without it, the evil glowy-maned lion from her Judas dream all those issues ago reappears. Angel is its father, and Buffy is its mother, and it's feeling like a Prom Night Dumpster Baby. Also, it has no soul... I don't suppose it would since it's more of a concept and a whole dimension and whatever other ridiculousness Whedon and Allie can stomach to cram into this slop. God, I can't believe this is still going to continue for months. *sigh*

This is no fairytale of epic proportions. In the words of the late, great Fred Burkle, "Now you'd think that was the end, wouldn'tcha? Dumb old fairy tales and their happily ever afters. But see, the minute they got back to the castle, the handsome man went away again. And even though she didn't mean to, didn't want to, high up in that castle the girl just built herself another cave, hoping he would save her again. But you can't save me this time. Can you?" The only way everyone's getting out of this is to fend for themselves 'cause their fearless leaderess has gone loco and Angel is about to make yet another really, really, REALLY stupid decision.


From: [identity profile] owenthurman.livejournal.com


I'm [livejournal.com profile] owenthurman and i approve this message.

Still I think my little fic from very early on is the best explanation of S8. It just needs a similar story for Angel and everyone is back in character.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Your ficlet is highly likely. Also, your Christine O'Donnell icon makes me LOL. XD

From: [identity profile] rebcake.livejournal.com


Well, now I don't need to write up a review, myself. Though one thing you don't mention that I'm wondering: why is Spike an effete snob all of the sudden?

I don't mind Buffy jumping out of the ship. Why the hell not? She's always jumping into things. Other than that, I cannot agree more with your points.

*iz sad and confused by non-sense-making fiction*

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Spike is sorta behaving like William if William hadn't been a sweetheart and had instead been one of those snobby elitists at the party the night he died. It's very strange.

I think the jumping thing was just for the visual, but it just seems like the same thing from the very first issue. Maybe that was the point, but she might have well been jumping over a shark.

*hugs*
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From: [identity profile] ubi4soft.livejournal.com


if William hadn't been a sweetheart and had instead been one of those snobby elitists at the party the night he died.

Ah, yes, that why with the Madeira.

From: [identity profile] shipperx.livejournal.com


Well, she can fly these days. It's not impetuous to jump when for no reason that's been adequately explained she can now defy gravity and aerodynamics and fly.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


It's not about the jump itself; I meant that she just jumps out of the ship with no plan, leaves everyone who needs to know what to do in the lurch, and just decides that being the Lone Gunman is the way to go 'cause that's worked so well for everyone in the past. Thank God the bugs can fly the ship without Spike or else everyone would be stuck up in the air with no way to land. She once again learns nothing from past experiences and rushes headlong into a ridiculous situation, and we're supposed to be thrilled with her impetuousness? I don't know, I guess I'm just tired of expecting her to stop acting like a foolhardy daredevil and let her back up actually back her up. She didn't even want Spike with her. If it hadn't been for him, she wouldn't have had a distraction when she landed in the Master's lair. Probably would have been more fair for her to get the crap pummeled out of her for the stunt she just pulled.

From: [identity profile] shipperx.livejournal.com


we're supposed to be thrilled with her impetuousness?

In a word? Yes. Remember how when Buffy came back after having been kicked out and Faith's plan destructed conveniently for the return of Buffy... Buffy still didn't have a plan better than "Follow me and my gut".

Buffy doesn't plan well because Joss doesn't plan well. So most of the time it doesn't even bother to notice her battle tactics. They work or don't based the needs of Joss plotted not because one of her plans has any more merit than another one.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I just think I am very tired of Buffy. It's the same stuff again and again but in a more annoying manner with each pass through the needle's eye. Why is there no tact to anything except to isolate Buffy and Spike with the Master for a few minutes for "witty" banter? *sigh and hides away from the comics and the DVDs*

From: [identity profile] infinitewhale.livejournal.com



The whole thing, to me, comes off as a CYA following the glowsex. Buffy's fantasy--the first one, that is--is pretty much Joss talking to the reader to contradict Willow in 34 because they didn't think of the backlash. They have Willow spending way too much time on the topic for me to think we're supposed to question her exposition. Then fandom freaked and they're throwing Buffy and Angel under the bus like Spike in S4. They were themselves! But they weren't! But they were. The glow was powerful enough for it to be affected them 4 issues later, but not enough that it took away free will. OK.

I don't think Spike even actually snarks at her, I think it's part of the daydream. Her eyes drift off in that panel and I think that's where it starts. It's the only place for it to start that the sequence makes sense to me. As far as the 'dark place' business goes, I don't know if that's not mocking Spuffy shippers like the whole 'best day of my life' stuff was a jab at Bangels.

I'm not seeing Dawn dying. They're being too obvious about it and really? Cold as it sounds, there isn't much audience payoff to killing Dawn. She's come a long way from her getoutgetoutgetout days, but she isn't popular enough for her death to hit the audience like Joss will want, I don't think. Nah, if I had to guess, it's Xander who's toast. They've spent the whole comic Marty Stuing him--everyone loves Xander, now!--so he's either going to die or he's going to be behind it all.

I'm interested in Hulk!Angel in the next one. That and that dialogue, which from the preview looks to be out of this world bad.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I don't think Spike even actually snarks at her, I think it's part of the daydream. Her eyes drift off in that panel and I think that's where it starts.
Well, I guess it's how you interpret it. Spike still called her a moron even if that is the panel in which she started to drift off, which she totally deserved if she was in complete control of herself.

They're being too obvious about it and really?
They did sorta give away the whole plot in the first arc- pregnancy metaphors, birth metaphors, broken eggs/seeds, Buffy is the Queen Slayer, worlds colliding into one another, the breakdown of reality, Spike's return, Angel being the bad guy... It's all kind of there before issue 12. I just don't think Joss cares about the audience, never did. He just does whatever, mocking every fan grouping along the way. I don't think that Dawn's death is about audience impact; it would be about the impact on Buffy that Dawn's death at the hands of someone Buffy trusts would have... Then again, that might actually make sense, and we can't have anything logical in these comics.

I'm actually more interesting in the Master. Like, I just want to have a flashback comic with the Fanged Four and the Order of Aurelius, no souls, no Slayers (except dead ones), one giant four-poster bed. *le sigh* We didn't get near enough FF craziness.

From: [identity profile] infinitewhale.livejournal.com


Spike still called her a moron even if that is the panel in which she started to drift off

See, I think she imagines that. If you look at Spike before that panel, he's in exposition mode and when it's obvious she's dreaming, he's still in exposition mode. Why Buffy would daydream about Spike insulting her, is anyone's guess, though. The jab about Giles calling her a crap student would be redundant if he actually said it. Moreover, it really doesn't make sense for Spike to rag her about college since it has nothing to do with college. Even Giles knew nothing about it.

They did sorta give away the whole plot in the first arc

Yeah, we know that now, but it wasn't painfully obvious at the time. The tagline for 38 is 'will Dawn survive?' which is a little over-the-top. You're right that Joss doesn't care about the audience. Still, though, Xander's the only one who's been around awhile and not fucked over in the books, I can't think it's all for nothing. Or maybe I just want him to die because I hate Mary Sues. :|

I'm actually more interesting in the Master.

The Master's kind of fitting in some ways if my wank theory is right. It makes no sense within the story at all that he's been a slave to the Seed for 800 years and never bothered to mention it, but logic has no place in these comics. Kind of like how the baby universe was manipulating Angel before it was born.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I think that this is one of those "darn you, comics" moments where they could have been clearer about when her fantasy starts by shifting the colour, which they don't do until she's kissing him in her fantasy. That makes it very unclear about what's fantasy and what's reality when only two panels have that colour shift. They should have muted everything where the fantasy began in the subtle yellow tone and done it that way because how can anyone really be 100% sure of which is which otherwise? Like, they could have even done a panel shifting into a that muted colour scheme to illustrate that she's drifting off into LALALand.

Yeah, we know that now, but it wasn't painfully obvious at the time.
I knew the pregnancy/birthing metaphor was coming with the egg (I felt it in my bones because the only overwrought "I AM WOMAN! HERE ME ROAR" metaphor she hadn't gotten into yet was actual pregnancy so she had to get knocked up eventually in some way) and I guessed haphazardly that Angel was Twilight 'cause it just had to be to torture my Spangel-loving soul... Though I had no way of knowing that Twilight was not only Angel, but a dimension and a mythical soulless Bangel goblin that was able to talk to Angel before it was technically born. FREAKY BAR. I just figured that this would all end with Buffy eating birth sacks off her litter of young... There's still time for that since we don't need any valuable exposition! *raises fist in the air* Damn you, Joss!

Also, I kinda just realized that Joss totally stole the plot line for S8 from Shoujo Kakumei Utena just as he stole the plot of Firefly from episodes of Cowboy Bebop. Oh, sweet Christ, I know how it's going to end. I guarantee (guarantees not valid in real life) that Buffy will be walking the lone walk of the lone hero down a highway at the end of this, and she may or may not remember who she is. And if SKU is what Joss is "paying homage" to, you're right, Xander's dead in the water. Oh, crap... Spike will be all right at least.

From: [identity profile] infinitewhale.livejournal.com



Like, they could have even done a panel shifting into a that muted colour scheme to illustrate that she's drifting off into LALALand.

Maybe the point is we're not supposed to be able to tell. I don't know. :(

Buffy will be walking the lone walk of the lone hero down a highway at the end of this

I'm thinking she's going to get stuck in a dimension somewhere. The first nightmare in the comics ends with her curled up in a ball all alone and there are *heavy* undertones of the mother being cast out in the books. My guess is Buffy smashes the seed/egg/umbilical cord thing, gets her soul/heart back and ends up stuck, sorta like Angel in S2. The Scoobs have all moved past her. Giles has been training Faith to be Buffy, Dawn doesn't need her anymore, Xander is over her, Willow would leave her dead again, etc, so they leave her stuck and abandoned. Then like in the dream, Spike shows up to get her. I mean, the ship has to play into this somehow, right? They didn't go to all that trouble just for a cool entrance. I'm not saying it'll be a Spuffy ending, but I can see that happening.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


If Spike were there, he'd take her in if no one else was there for her because he's Spike. Of course, Angel would too, but that might constitute a happy ending for some people, and no one's getting happy anything when this is over. I've always thought that if either Spuffy or Bangel would work for long periods, even friendship-wise, that it needs to be Spangeffy, like you sorta need all three of them in the relationship as a series of checks and balances between their personalities, so maybe they all three go somewhere in the ship until the new season starts.

I mean, the ship has to play into this somehow, right? They didn't go to all that trouble just for a cool entrance.
I see a lot of things in these comics that were done just because that didn't have a lot of purpose. It seems like more of the same "We couldn't do this on the show!" mentality. However, I would hope that they need the ship more than just a Slayer transport.

I do wonder if the egg gets destroyed, which will still lead into Fray where the walls begin to break down again after 200 years.

From: [identity profile] infinitewhale.livejournal.com



Oh, I don't think it'll be a happy ending, I just don't see Spike as leaving her wherever if that's what happens. Without magic, he has the means to go get her and like I said, I see the ship having some kind of purpose other than Slayer transport. They're going to do backstory on it in S9--most likely what Spike's sidearc will be about--so there must be more to it. Angel, I can see leaving her if it's better for the world, which is a big theme. The Girl or The World, after all. Angel will be back in his own trunk title in S9, I think, so he'll go back to being normal with Buffy not being the center of the universe...not that she was to him even when he was on BTVS, but whatever. We can't apply TV show characterizations to the comics.

I don't think it'll be Spuffy, though, since she'll continue to alienate him.

I do wonder if the egg gets destroyed

It seems it will if the #10 panel is true. Apparently Joss's wife guessed the ending when Angel was revealed as Twilight which is why I think it'll mirror the end of S2.

From: [identity profile] kidcyclone.livejournal.com


'Like, I just want to have a flashback comic with the Fanged Four and the Order of Aurelius, no souls, no Slayers (except dead ones), one giant four-poster bed. *le sigh* We didn't get near enough FF craziness.'

Or a whole series... ;>

From: [identity profile] mulder200.livejournal.com


LOL! I gotta say even if the comics suck dick (and not in a good way) your reviews never fail to crack me up.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I'm glad that I can be of some entertainment. It does make me feel useful to some degree. :D
shapinglight: (Default)

From: [personal profile] shapinglight


Guess what? Spike's still Buffy's "dark place," and that's supposed to be a compliment. But when did being Buffy's dirty little secret that's so horrible that she believes her friends will all desert her if they find out because Buffy thinks so little of her pals become a compliment? We see what Spike is to Buffy in perfect clarity- the guy to be there and be her dildo. That's all she wants out of him. He's nothing- NOTHING- to her besides a place to hide from reality. We're supposed to find her behavior what? Cute? Funny? Am I supposed to be happy that Spike has been relegated to being placated with moronic platitudes and then be reduced to the most basic marital aid?

Yep. This was my reaction to those fantasy scenes too. Still is, in fact. I don't see anything good for Spuffy in them, just a reiteration of what Georges Jeanty said about Angel being 'home' and Spike being 'the little cabin in the woods,' which is pretty tough on the little cabin in the woods IMO.

The only thing that saves that 'you're my dark place' comment is that Buffy doesn't actually say it aloud. Even so, I don't get the sense that she keeps quiet to spare Spike's feelings, but more because she's embarrassed at being caught out having naughty thoughts.

Yep, this comic has trashed Buffy and Angel so badly, and I just can't believe Joss thought it through because it strikes me as commercial suicide to make your two title characters (since Angel is to have his own series next year) so unlikeable that a large proportion of the audience wouldn't care less if they both dropped dead (and not all of those people are Spike/Spuffy fans). Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time Joss has misjudged the long term effect of his storytelling choices on his characters, for which see the AR in season 6.

As for the plot, it is indeed as nonsensical as you say.
Edited Date: 2010-10-23 11:18 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I feel sorry for both Spuffies and Bangels after all this. Jeanty, Allie, and Whedon have talked about the "respect" that they wanted to show for both fan-groupings, but I don't see much respect for either in this story. It would have been much better to have this season have a new bad guy, just as all the other seasons had a new Big Bad.

Even so, I don't get the sense that she keeps quiet to spare Spike's feelings, but more because she's embarrassed at being caught out having naughty thoughts.
Totally agree. She actually stomps on his feelings more by not coming up with a better excuse for her distance. There he is trying to help her and take the time to explain things to her specifically, allowing her to use his facilities so that she'll feel more comfortable, and she can't give him the courtesy to listen to him. Instead, she imagines him being all defensive and then pouting childishly, and then he instantly falls for her slight show of affection and not!compliments.

It's even more frustratingl when you have Allie who thinks that it's "respectful" to just to say "Well, Buffy just misses sex" as though being a liberated, modern woman means that the only thing that one has on the brain is sex and when/where one is going to get it next. Her sister needed her guidance when she was a giant, could have used a real sister in that moment, but all Buffy could think of was, "Well, at least Dawn got some sex." It's very demeaning to all women to say that we are so easily distracted from life itself if we don't get sex. Why doesn't Whedon just say that Buffy's uterus is floating about her throat and that she needed Angel's cold dead seed to anchor it and make her not hysterical anymore? Argh.
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From: [identity profile] ubi4soft.livejournal.com


Spike is being quite mean, but in my opinion it's well-deserved.

The fact that is Spike doesn't make it right. Spike is brought just to contrast Angel. How is he more entitled to yell at Buffy than all the other characters in S8? Why not Satsu or Xander or Giles? Oh, no, let's bring in the rude, jack-ass Spike. He's British, snarks a lot and he's wearing the coat! On top of it, for him Buffy transcended from "hell of a woman" to "hell of a ride"
shapinglight: (Default)

From: [personal profile] shapinglight


Yep, I don't get the rejoicing over Spike's rudeness either.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I don't like how Spike's being portrayed, but Buffy deserves to be snarked at (because, Lord knows, no one else is going to do it apparently)... I just wish that they didn't make Spike look like a real jerk while doing it.
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From: [identity profile] ubi4soft.livejournal.com


If all the characters have their flaws amplified, why not Spike's also? (this is my only hope in fact)

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I guess I just don't think that their flaws need to be amplified if that's indeed what Joss is deliberately doing and not just a side-effect of these "comics are so DIFFERENT!" mentality, which is sort of the driving force of my displeasure with the whole sorted effort. Lord knows that these characters have enough flaws that they don't need to be given steroids.

From: [identity profile] shipperx.livejournal.com


The fact that is Spike doesn't make it right. Spike is brought just to contrast Angel. How is he more entitled to yell at Buffy than all the other characters in S8? Why not Satsu or Xander or Giles?

I kind of think they're all entitled to yell at her for frakking the end of the world if, as she says, it was her.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


I think Willow's classic "What were you thinking? Or were you even thinking at all?" might be appropriate for such an occasion. :D

From: [identity profile] treadingthedark.livejournal.com


Excellent review!!
I really agree.

"Then again, nothing in this book is as it should be, so she could just be grumpy that Spike's ship was serving enchiladas instead of sloppy joes that day."
Bwahah!!!


From: [identity profile] shakensilence.livejournal.com


It is all very sad but true... the s8 comics just aren't living up to what I think of when I think of BtVS.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Me either. I just wanted a decent story; I really didn't care about shipping or who go with whom. Where's the story? Instead, all we got were weird segueway side stories that didn't really add anything to the plot.

From: [identity profile] sandy-s.livejournal.com


This is worse than the worst fanfic...I'm not reading the comics anymore but everytime I come across the latest summary...it's WORSE. GAH!

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


It truly, truly does keep getting worse. I don't know how they how they could possible salvage any of the characters for more comics after S8. It just needs to go away.

From: [identity profile] shipperx.livejournal.com


He doesn't have time for her pitiful excuses or her idiotic daydreaming. In the long and short of it, Spike is being quite mean

Really? Given that we're talking about the space boff that destroyed the world I tend to think Spike is allowed to be both yelly and snarky and it not be considered anything but harsh words of reality.

I do think it's interesting that while trying to save places in things in the world from repercussions that ANGEL set off it takes some large sized balls for him to worry about what he needs. Hmm... maybe, Angel, it's not about you. And maybe, if he were a bit more aware that everything isn't about him, he wouldn't have been sucked into this whole, incredibly stupid "Twilight" thing twice.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Really? Given that we're talking about the space boff that destroyed the world I tend to think Spike is allowed to be both yelly and snarky and it not be considered anything but harsh words of reality.
You cut off my quote; I said it was well-deserved in my opinion. Buffy deserves to be brought back to earth, deserves to hear the harsh truths that no one else is willing to say. Didn't say Spike shouldn't be saying what he's saying. Just that he's being mean in tone, i.e. critical and not letting it go (which is a GOOD thing).

Angel has lost his mind. That's all I've got on that.

From: [identity profile] fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com


This is probably the most sane review of the whole mess and I kinda love you for it. Seriously this doesn't make sense at all. and saying its a metaphor for something or other(At this point who could know?) is offensive to metaphors all over the world.


she could just be grumpy that Spike's ship was serving enchiladas instead of sloppy joes that day.

I was drinking tea while I read that, you now owe me a keyboard ;)

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


and saying its a metaphor for something or other(At this point who could know?) is offensive to metaphors all over the world.
Couldn't agree more. :D

Sorry about your keyboard, but I'm glad that I am loved for my madness. :D

From: [identity profile] powerofthebook.livejournal.com


Actually, I think Spike was being quite gentle in his comments to Buffy. I was hoping he'd casually drop in the fact that her pursuit of sex had caused the deaths of untold numbers of people and really twist the knife. The fact that he didn't tells me that he's still got some affection for her, though.

Season Eight: The Snooki-fication of Buffy continues.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Oh, if only he would truly stick it to her (in a non-sexual way), I'd really enjoy it. Actually, after all this, I'd just be happy for someone, anyone, to hold Buffy accountable for her own actions.

Season Eight: The Snooki-fication of Buffy continues.
Oh, my sides hurt from lol'ing. :D

From: [identity profile] sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com


In total agreement with your entire review; Season 8 is nothing but a garbled, irrational, insulting mess, and we can only hope that in Season 9 Whedon will have lost interest in the BtVS and AtS comics and no longer participate in writing them.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Can't it just be chalked up to an error in judgement and just throw it all in the trash where it belongs? I'm tired of Joss taking out all his frustrations on characters I used to enjoy.

From: [identity profile] kidcyclone.livejournal.com


Now I'm imagining TM traveling all over Europe with this magical egg whotsit in a carpet bag, and a sinister grin. He also has a twirlable villanous moustache, for some reason.

I don't read any of the Buffy comics, although I read After the Fall and the Spike: Asylum series, but Season 8 sounds baffling to me. JW obviously seems to think this is good storytelling, but it all sounds like the sort of pull it out of your arse storytelling that a couple of fourth graders might come up with if they were trying to write a 'cool' story.

Basic LOGIC seems to be missing from the actions. My theory is that you can only ask your reader to suspend disbelief so much. Once you create a world with rules, you have to be consistent with the rules, otherwise the reader's ability to suspend disbelief crumbles.

You also can't have your character performing actions that make them one sort of person and expect the audience to believe they aren't that sort of person just because you say so. 'No, Buffy isn't a selfish moron! She's a strong, modern woman and a good person!' 'No, Angel isn't crazy, retarded, or possibly having lost his soul and become Angelus (only somehow minus any of Angelus's wit)! He's a GOOD PERSON DAMMIT' 'Ignore what they're DOING, just listen to me, I'm the author, I know, stop forming opinions of your own based on the text I present, listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeee!'

Also, the 'Angel is home/Spike is the little cabin in the woods' analogy is absolutely awful. Who is supposed to be satisfied with this? If the sexes were reversed and a male char was saying that about two female chars, people would be absolutely up in arms about it.

Personally I think Buffy needs Angel and Spike both, because it takes both of them to give her any bloody balance and keep her in touch with reality. Why can't they just have a polyamourous relationship? Oh wait, cos that would solve half of these problems and would make sense, given that two of the members of the threesome were in a polyamorous relationship for twenty years.

Oh wait, no, hang on, Spike didn't want to be in that relationship, he was held captive, utterly against his will and hated every moment of it. He and Angel have no feelings for each other, they just hate each other, everything shown on the show was total bollocks and this comic is the 'real story'.

This comic sounds more and more to me like Stephen King's horrible attempt to do 'The Shining' 'as it was intended to be done'. There's a reason why it's good not to be allowed to do just whatever the hell you want in writing. There's a reason why having people give you honest critiques is good.

Well, I didn't intend for this to turn into a rant! Thank you for reading this crap and summarising it so I don't have to read it myself.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


*hugs* Spike and Angel need to be together... and all of these comics are just a bad dream. XD

From: [identity profile] of-too-minds.livejournal.com


Word.

Sadly it's not even a parody of itself because Joss isn't that self-aware.... it's just crap.

From: [identity profile] fenderlove.livejournal.com


Thank you for reading! :D

I think probably the fastest way to make oneself crazy is to try and suss out an elaborate, metaphorical wonderland out of these issues. I think that the story, for what it's worth, is what it is. The few panels in early issues that actually meant something, hinting at future events, in these later issues had big glowing (sometimes literally) arrows pointing at them. It's just a mystery to me why, after a good year of preproduction work before the comic began to be released with other writers, editors, and artists, how much of a jumbled mess this book is.
.

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