Comic Rantings from a Hateful Bitch.

[fenderlove]

F-list, I apologize for yet another comic-related thing to fill up with your page with woe and angst, but I want to rant too. Everyone else is getting to have so much fun with it! Yeah, I'm fairly hateful about the S8 comics. I've actually read 'em though I refuse to buy them because why should I pay good money for something that I'm just going to mock? The one positive thing that you will ever hear me say about Joss Whedon is that he does have a small bit of integrity in that he tells the story he wants to tell and fuck everyone else. Trouble is he's still a wanker.


The only problem is that he's a trope of himself and spiraled down into near parody of badness. I don't believe Joss panders to any one set group of fans 'cause I believe that he couldn't give a flying fig because he's got a pretty hardcore fanbase that's hard to shake. I mean, you throw massive amounts of unnecessary character deaths/resurrections, rapes/attempted rapes/sexual assaults/forced prostitution, faux!feminism masquerading as the genuine article, and enough plotholes to sink a Winnebago, and the fans don't go away. Even the ones who are severely disappointed don't go away. There's something to be said for that, I suppose. He gives you glimpses of the things you once enjoyed about his programs only to take them away or to twist them into an unrecognizable tangled mess of stinking offal. I wish I could bond with him over a shared sense of sadism (I do enjoy causing a bit of pain), but I fear he's far more deranged than I. I don't ship, and his need to stir up a shit-storm at random is just so played that it annoys the frak out of me. In a way, how freeing it must be to Joss Whedon. To have the kind of following to fund what he wants to do, to have the pull to get the deals that allow he to have total artistic freedom, yet he can't seem to help but joss everyone. It'd be laughable if it wasn't pathetic... Oh, wait, it's still laughable. The only explanation for why BtVS and Ats were originally so compelling was just a magical happenstance of other writers and directors and actors that came together in perfect harmony to create a lasting story with compelling characters that withstands the years. A fluke, perhaps? There are definitely times I wonder.

Also, Scott Allie is a douche and a bully. Jack Kirby should rise from the grave and beat the daylights out of that man for being such a sad martyred sack of old oats. He's like the Felix the Cat of stupid parlor pander. "Oh, I accidentally posted this... Oh, you weren't supposed to see that!" pulling the same kind of crap that would get even a high-up-than-intern employee fired. I've lost all respect for Dark Horse though I honestly cannot say that I was that impressed with much of their titles (though hats off to them for breaking through the Big Two to get closer to the top of the heap and opening the doors to other smaller labels). Comics are taking such a major leap backwards, and I blame the massive amounts of franchise comics struggling to tease out even five more points out between a built-in audience that may not exist and an audience of already comic-buyers, praying that this quarter will be better than the last. This isn't the Modern Age of Comics; welcome to the Brass Age, baby.

Comments

[dontgetanyolder.livejournal.com]

this is the first rant on my f-list that didn't chastize people for not appreciating Joss and Allie enough. THANK GOD.
I don't like Scott Allie. I agree. Douchey.
Nice to know I'm not alone in that belief.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

You're not alone, trust me. Respect is earned, and Joss and Allie have never done anything to garner any from me.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The one positive thing that you will ever hear me say about Joss Whedon is that he does have a small bit of integrity in that he tells the story he wants to tell and fuck everyone else. Trouble is he's still a wanker.

Hee! {{hug}}

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the hugs! :D

[nonothrthnme.livejournal.com]

Werd

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

I see your "werd" and raise you a "whoohoo!" :D

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

"The only explanation for why BtVS and Ats were originally so compelling was just a magical happenstance of other writers and directors and actors"

I have never understood why everyone attributes so much of the BTVS/ATS goodness to Joss, ESPECIALLY ATS, with which he was virtually hands-off for 90% of it.They were good IN SPITE of Joss's presence.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Beats the fuck out of me. I mean, there are so many people working on ANY television show/movie/etc that it's always been ridiculous to me to attribute the whole success/failure on one person. The comics, however, I will blame more solely on Joss because he's had more control over what the side writers have written in his arcs... and I don't like George Jeanty's artwork. *is a bitca* :D

[paratti.livejournal.com]

I think he is losing his audience. Look at the fallen and falling numbers of the comic and the telly shows. More and more of his audience are realising the emperor has no clothes.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

One can hope. I feel bad for those who don't want Buffy & Co. to go away, but I don't want to see three more years of people dealing with crippling disappointment over what is to come with Season 9. Season 8 could have been told in 20 to 22 books, two years tops, and set up more episodically. My kingdom for a decent editor!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The endless meandering is a mind-boggler. Seriously, you don't reveal the identity of the villain or the villain's motivation for three freaking years? How does that work, exactly? (I mean, other than for Lost, because somehow Lost pulled that off... and I still don't know how.)

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Well, if he had gotten straight to the "meat" of his story, then we wouldn't have gotten to see Tokyo Vampires, Mecha Dawn, Centaur Dawn, Giantess Dawn, Doll Dawn, age-regression Buffy dreams, sonic boom sex, or the Magical Submarine Mystery Tour because, as you know, they couldn't afford to do those things on the show so they HAD TO BE DONE in the comic or else the comic wouldn't be worth it.

I think Lost works because everyone gave up on coherency long ago. XD

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"The only explanation for why BtVS and Ats were originally so compelling was just a magical happenstance of other writers and directors and actors"

Yeah, funny that. *g*

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

When things are bad, he blames everyone else, but when things are good, his cronies are willing to give him all the credit. "Oh, the Buffy movie did so poorly in sales! That wasn't MY fault! It was the Kuzuis! It was Fox! It was everyone but me!"

"Joss wrote the screenplay for Toy Story! See what a good writer he is?" "Didn't he work with like four other people on that? And didn't they change a lot of the script in the end?" "No, it's Joss! It's amazing!" "Well, what about that horrible Alien movie he wrote with all the genitalia?" "NO! They changed a lot of the script in the end! It's not Joss's fault!"

:D I'm mean.

[thedabara-cds.livejournal.com]

I'm not a big fan of comics, or of Anne Rice, but the hubby and I bought all the Anne Rice comic books when they first came out, and still have them. They are one big reason why I just could not stand the Jossverse comics. Look at both sets of comic art and there's just no comparison. Most of the S8 comic art sucks donkey balls. And don't even get me started on the plot lines that make the "Lost" writers look like they had a coherent story arc well-planned out from the beginning...

Although it must be said, Innovations comics (who made the Anne Rice comics) did very high quality comics, so much so that when they experienced their first slump in sales they went bankrupt very quickly. But even if Dark Horse didn't want to spend as much on very expensive printing processes, it wouldn't have killed them to hire some better artists. Not that they were all bad, but Dark Horse seems to re-hire the worst artists and let go the good ones. Go figure.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Or they work the good artists into exhaustion and nervous breakdowns, like they did with Jo Chen.

It was a shame about innovations, wasn't it? Sigh, it's always quantity over quality. :(

[sentine.livejournal.com]

I don't ship, and his need to stir up a shit-storm at random is just so played that it annoys the frak out of me.

Thank you for translating so clearly my brain :)

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Your brain and my brain must be very similar. :D

[treadingthedark.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this.

"The only explanation for why BtVS and Ats were originally so compelling was just a magical happenstance of other writers and directors and actors"

And emmy winning, catchy songs, NPH or not, Dr. Horrible's ending just made me roll my eyes with it's special brand of Jossian triteness at the end. Get a new idea!!!!

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Have you heard Joss and his wife singing the songs from OMWF? It's no wonder James said he nearly shat himself with fear when he heard it (it's not that bad, but it really makes you realize how much the actors brought to the songs themselves). That episode is probably one of Joss's strongest writing-wise, but the actors, choreographers, vocal coaches, recording production, and costumers also really made that episode. Same with Dr. Horrible, which had the power to redeem Joss in my eyes, but then he literally followed his TV Trope:
"In some circles, the term "Jossed" refers to a gutwrenching main character death, which Joss Whedon is also famous for." - http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Jossed

[sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com]

*THIRTY-MINUTE STANDING OVATION* \o/

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

*salutes* Thank ya! I actually feel sorta better now. Like, I realized that the reason I couldn't continue with my fics is because I really doubted how the characters are supposed to behave (based on how they are now behaving in S8), but I've ranted and watched a few old episodes, and I think I should have stuck with my instincts all along.

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

Word to all of this!

I mean I tried to give S8 a fair shake and kudos to those who ACTUALLY enjoy it but this sucks!

The artwork is crappy, the storyline sucks and the pacing is so fucking slow it's just ridiculous!

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

I take real offense to those who won't let others complain. They say, "You haven't read all of it so it's not fair for you to judge!" when it doesn't matter if someone stopped reading after issue 1 or after issue 30. It was bad enough for them to stop reading! Something about the story failed for the reader, and that's not the reader's fault. I mean, yay definitely for those that are truly enjoying it, but I don't see anything redeeming about this comic. Even if there was a grand pay-off at the end, would it really be worth it? I mean, how great can a pay-off be if a three-and-a-half year storyline can be hastily patched together to a finale in the seven issues that are left of this season?

[xeelia.livejournal.com]

Bows to your succinct wording of what I think! I like the idea of BtVS and AtS, I like the original outlines of the characters, I like the potential the characters had, I HATE what Joss did with them. I HATE the loopholes and the way a character's characterization morphs...in the same episode/issue.

I think Joss is a great outliner and character idea guy, he's a horrible story teller.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

I think that there were even times, early in the issues, that the whole plot could have been salvaged (perhaps by a total BtVS writers' reunion and a round-table with some of the actors), but it's far too late for that.

Joss reminds me a little of Stephen King. Stephen King is a great story-teller, but not a strong writer (grammatically/structurally), but his ideas have created some of the most lasting characters, stories, and images in horror. Maybe Joss should have done with Dark Horse that he did with IDW- working with the writer to create the outline and then stepping away to only offer more ideas and/or advice.

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying what we're all thinking! Seriously. Oh, and no one says because everyone's afraid that poor Allie will have his ickle feelings hurt. :P

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

I definitely wouldn't say everyone is thinking it. There are a lot of people who are unhappy with fans "disrespecting" Allie and Whedon by being unhappy with the comics or criticizing them.

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

It's really a shame- I know that there's a thread going at the BSV where someone finally pointed out that Joss, contrary to popular belief, isn't a god, and he's just as flawed as the rest of us. I respect Joss for BtVS, and AtS, and most of his other projects. I don't respect him for the comics. I think there's so much wrong with them that I'm actually unhappy that he'll soon be dragging Spike into that trainwreck. And I think that as his audience, it's our job to be the most honest critics out there. We look to details and continuity that they can't afford to, and we can point out that it's all BS without repercussions. As fans, we tend to be far more honest than anyone Joss and Allie might know personally. So yeah, we complain, and that's our right, and kind of our duty, too. :)

(But you seem to agree with that, so why am I ranting here? :D)

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Ranting is good for the soul. It always makes me feel better. :D

[angearia.livejournal.com]

The only explanation for why BtVS and Ats were originally so compelling was just a magical happenstance of other writers and directors and actors that came together in perfect harmony to create a lasting story with compelling characters that withstands the years. A fluke, perhaps? There are definitely times I wonder.

Well, yes of course. That's the creative process and the beauty of collaboration. Of which he's a part of and certainly not a bad part so...

The (implied?) argument for the shows being good despite Joss' influence doesn't make sense, imo, but I think I'm not the target audience for your rant. :P

Oh, fandom. We're all so dramatic. :D

*uses bitch icon*

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

I'm not not including Joss in the process nor was I trying to imply that the show was good in spite of him. There were just other writers and creative types involved in his shows that wrote the good majority of episodes. However, I do take offense to those that would like to dump all of the good and none of the bad on one sole person and vice versa when it comes to a television program or film. Dollhouse and Firefly had just as large of a creative team as BtVS and Angel, but (and this is totally my opinion) they just weren't as compelling. Dr. Horrible was good until the third act in which it turned into a cliche. I think Joss has some good ideas, but when left to his own devices he falls into the contrivances and tropes and then falls through his own plotholes. ...And Crying-at-the-drop-of-a-hat!Buffy makes me physically ill.

I don't have target audiences; I'll leave that to Allie to try and sort out.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Who's "dump[ing] all of the good and none of the bad on one sole person and vice versa"? Just, I really never come across that on LJ. Or even on forums. It's far more likely to read criticism about Joss imo. Though it might just be our own perspectives being flipped, so we notice different things.

think Joss has some good ideas, but when left to his own devices he falls into the contrivances and tropes and then falls through his own plotholes.

I agree with that, true. He does start to repeat ideas and that's very frustrating to me.

...And Crying-at-the-drop-of-a-hat!Buffy makes me physically ill.

LOL. I'm not even touching that one. The ways in which I disagree could fill a thesis paper. :P

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Just, I really never come across that on LJ. Or even on forums. It's far more likely to read criticism about Joss imo.
Oh, if only I could dig up the wank from the old FanForums. It was EPIC. There are a lot of people, including Joss himself, who want to pass the blame around about how the original Buffy flopped. Joss never takes any of the blame himself nor does anyone who defends his "honor" even stop and think that perhaps the story was just a tad weak to begin with (I personally have a soft spot for the film). It's the same thing with some of his other work. Toy Story = Commercially successful. Joss is a genius even though four other writers worked on that with him. Alien Resurrection = Neither commercially nor critically successful. It's not Joss's fault! It's the director's! In reality, there's enough praise and blame to go around; none of which means a damn thing.

The ways in which I disagree could fill a thesis paper. :P
That's glorious. Strong opinions are always such fun. I like "Oh, no, she's crying again" drinking game I created. Too bad I'm allergic to alcohol or I'd be blitzed. I'll stick to the conclusion that Buffy either needs an anti-depressant or she's pregnant... or she's got some sort of disease that makes grey paint leak from all her orifices.