fenderlove | Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

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Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

Quick word: I won't be responding with my own opinions to any comments left in this post, so feel free to answer honestly without fear that I shall pounce upon you. I may have further questions to ask.

How would you describe Spike's role in the comics in Season Nine? And to go further, what is his literal role in the comics? What has he literally been doing? What has been clearly asked of him by any other character or characters? The key words for all this are definitely- literal specifics. I'm looking for less interpretation "if you turn it sideways and squint and read between the lines" type of examples and more for just what has been presented.

Like I said above, I won't be responding with my own opinions. I'm just curious to find out if I've missed something in translation.

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This got long...

In 8.40 Spike tells Buffy that he's "keeping his ear to the ground" and has heard "rumblings" that "somebody's coming for you". He doesn't know who or what.

He tries to be supportive of Buffy, but she pushes him away with sarcasm. ("Wow. Thank God you've got my back." "Why did we ever break up?") Spike responds with a supportive talk about how wonderful she is, which causes Buffy to burst into tears (which she tries to hide) and leave hastily.

Skip ahead to the first issue of Season 9. Buffy invited Spike to her housewarming party by text. She flirts with him, but Spike is detached ("Hmm. Any chance I can make you beg?" "Not this year".). After that, she doesn't interact with him at the party at all that we see. He's shown to be on very friendly terms with Willow, talks to Buffy's male flatmate Tumble, and in one panel is apparently making out with a random girl.

Next night, Buffy and Willow are patrolling together when Spike joins them. He repeats that Buffy is being targeted, but has no new information. Buffy is impatient and dismissive; she doesn't like him "protecting" her. Later on, though, she admits to herself that she's started watching her back because of his warnings.

In 9.02, Buffy is arrested: the police are looking for a serial killer and suspect her. She goes on the run, hoping to find the killer herself. Spike tracks her down ("You'e a hard girl to find"). That's when they have the conversation where Buffy says "I'd probably miss you". She's looking away from him as she says that. Spike replies "Bloody hell you would" and says he's still planning to help her: at this Buffy smiles, turns to look at him and says, "Thanks, Spike".

Next issue, we see Spike at work trying to find who is "targeting" Buffy. He beats up a demon estate agent (!) until he reveals that a new demon came to town looking for Buffy. Spike tracks this demon down. (It's while he's doing this that Buffy texts him inviting him to a Scooby meeting.)

Spike finds the demon (Eldre Koh), but he turns out to be on Buffy's side. He wants to help her against "the Siphon", an entity which can "rip mystical energy from all he touches", and whose prophesied coming is feared. Spike and Koh team up, and engage in some male bonding on the way back to town.

Koh wants to know why a vampire would want to help a Slayer. Spike say that he and Buffy "go way back" and that he would "do pretty much anything to keep her safe". Koh pushes for more information on their relationship: Spike is defensive and avoids answering directly.

"Things are not as you'd like them with the Slayer."
"Sorry if you're looking for a supernatural soap, but there's nothing sudsy to tell here. After everything that Buffy's been through, she needs one thing, and that's normal. Which I am decidedly not."

Buffy, meanwhile, is fighting the Siphon. Just to make matters worse, the warehouse they're in is surrounded by the police. Spike and Koh make their way inside where they're confronted by Dowling, a homicide detective. Spike goes into vampface to warn Dowling to back off, then Spike and Koh join the battle.

It doesn't go well. The Siphon knocks Koh out with a single blast of his powers; Spike is conscious but down on the ground. He then grabs both Spike and Buffy and starts draining their energy at the same time - all the power he's draining makes him stronger.

Spike and Buffy are helpless, held at arm's length facing each other; she says, "Spike... don't...". he says Buffy's name, and a tear leaks from the corner of his eye. At this point Dowling comes back and saves the day by shooting the Siphon. (Which doesn't kill him, but disrupts his power enough for Spike and Buffy to escape.)

While Buffy is talking to the police Spike takes the opportuity to slip away. Koh tells him Buffy will want to talk to him, but Spike isn't willing, for the reasons he gave earlier - he thinks Buffy "needs normal".

And that's where we left it with Spike.

Thanks. I appreciate it! :D

Is it weird that Spike's behavior seems like Season One!Angel? It sounds like he's lurking, popping out for banter and sage-like words, and then disappearing back in the shadows to protect Buffy from unknown things without her desiring him to do so or asking for his help (and apparently being Guy #1245 to be deciding that he knows what Buffy needs out of life). Sigh. I just pray he's not human after this because... that'd be the last pin in my cushion, I think.

I don't think he's human, but there's a theory that when he got Siphoned, his cold dead seed was "activated". And there's also a theory that he and Buffy had just had sexy times at the party. Which means: Baby Daddy! lol

But the party was before the Siphoning, so Spike would have had to have slept with her then when his seed was still cold and dead. Is the theory that Buffy never... bathed or used the bathroom in a few weeks so that his seed was still in her and got activated somehow?

At the risk of offending people, I'm not sure if they've thought it through in that level of detail. :)

(See also, the people suggesting that it's Angel's baby, and so Buffy has been pregnant for the last seven months without noticing anything odd...)

Check out the timeline. The siphoning happened just a couple of days or so after the party, so it's a viable theory. The Angel space frak theory is just ridiculous on so many levels.

Let me try to make sure I understand. Are you saying that the theory is that because of the Siphoning, which may have somehow activated Spike's semen to being fast little swimmers again, happened a few days after the party at which Buffy conceived her child or that she didn't actually conceive the child until five days later? I have to admit that I'm very grossed out to imagine Spike's non-motile sperm staying in Buffy's area that longer and that Buffy didn't use any feminine hygiene products (or Plan B, for that matter) after the party. Although, since this is probably a mystical miracle baby, Plan B probably wouldn't have worked.

The theory is that Spike and Buffy had sex at the party. A couple or so days later, the Siphoning caused Spike's semen to come alive inside of Buffy, and she conceived at that time. I don't know if Buffy douched, but that doesn't prevent pregnancy anyway (doesn't flush everything out, and some say it can even make conception easier.) Plan B, I dunno why Buffy didn't choose to use that, just in case.

Anyway it's a doable theory. Whether Joss is going there, I have no idea. If he does, he'll be my favorite fanfic writer of all time. ;-D

And the preview for the next issue just came out. One cover has Spike/Buffy fighting back to back. It's rather shippy. The other cover is a flashback, with Nicki the slayer and Spike. We find out in the issue that Nicki had been going through her test, where the council drugs her to take away her powers, while she was pregnant. I think they're going to explain that's why her son had no special strength or power. AND, that foreshadows Buffy's baby as having slayer strength, IMO.

Actually, it hasn't been a few weeks since the party. It's been just a couple of days or something. So the timeline works since conception can happen up to 5 days after sex.

Wait, it's only been five days, and Buffy/the writers are trusting a home pregnancy test and she's got morning sickness?

Yeah, that's really fast morning sickness. lol

Oh, well, super healing abilities, super morning sickness. It all evens out, I guess.

I like that icon, by the by. Poor fluffy William. :D

You're not the first to compare Spike's behaviour now to Angel in the first season; so no, not weird. :)

As for him "deciding he knows what's best for Buffy", that's true to a point but I think you need to consider the history of his interaction with her:

The very first time he met her again after a two-year absence, she was still in loved-up afterGlow mood after having sex with Angel - something Spike knew had happened. She was also abrupt and impatient with him (and everyone else, to be fair), having other things on her mind (like the apocalypse she'd just inadvertently caused).

Later on, they have a long intimate conversation. We see Buffy's internal dialogue/fantasies and see she's very much still sexually attracted to Spike, but he completely misinterprets her mood and assumes she's still thinking about Angel.

They meet the resurrected Master, who says he thought Angelus would be there too. Spike mutters "Don't worry, he'll be around later to take credit for everything."

Battle is joined. Spike fights alongside Buffy, it's all very spuffyesque. Then Angel shows up, Buffy's face lights up with a smile, and Spike sees this and says resignedly "Right then".

At this point, Spike returns to his bug ship. He therefore doesn't know about Angel killing Giles and Buffy breaking the Seed, but he does see when the apocalype is over, and he immediately assumes it's because of something Buffy did. But instead of rejoining her, he decides he needs to give the good guys "time to lick their wounds", and they should chase after a huge escaping demon instead because "somebodfy has to stop that."

You said you don't want interpretation here, just facts; so I won't suggest possible motives why Spike should choose to make himself absent, after several days of him misinterpreting Buffy's feelings to be all about AngelAngelAngel and not about him. :)

At this stage, Spike is gone for two whole months, because the bug's spaceship has a malfunction and they can't get back any sooner. He presumably finds out what happened, but Buffy is still being snarky and stand-offish. We, the audience, know she's conflicted emotionally, hiding her tears at his kind words and pretending to brush him off; Spike apparently just thinks she's being weird.

So what they've set up, it seems to me, is a situation where Spike has good reason to assume that Buffy has no stronger feelings for him than friendship. He can see she's acting strangely - at the party she flirts heavily with him, but the next day she's back to snark and insults. However, he seems to be putting this down to her being under stress, isolated and in a bad life situation.

Given all that - and here I am going to be guily of interpretation - I think his talk to Koh about Buffy "needing normal right now" is partly him deciding what's best for her, yes - but it's also very much him trying to rationalise his own feelings. Give himself an excuse not to pursue a relationship with her, because he thinks he'd only end up getting hurt if he did.

It should probably be noted that the audience is not all in perfect agreement that Buffy is hiding her tears when Spike finally returns to Earth. The 'tear' in question is very unlike the big fat obvious tears that Jeanty draws when he wants to show a character getting emotional, and may in fact be nothing more than the corner of Buffy's eye. (Didn't someone ask Jane Espenson about Buffy crying in that story, and her response was basically "Huh?")

Someone asked Jeanty if it was a tear after I did my "explanation of 'Jeanty Tears' post," and he said it was most definitely not a tear. It was the corner of Buffy's eye (Jeanty draws it that way quite a bit, but when he draws tears they have a more blue tint to them in most cases).

That's not the scene I was referring to, though. I meant when Buffy and Spike are on the fire escape, and he addresses her with his "kind words". She's definitely crying there, but she hides her face with her hands then abruptly turns her back on him and clambers back inside as fast as she can.

Remember the timing: that fire escape scene was published before the Magical Mystery Tour webcomic, but chronologically it takes place after it.

I read it as you referring to both scenes - first the fire escape, where there's little doubt she's crying, and then the later scene when the bugs drop him off in the park and Buffy is waiting for him. IIRC there was quite a lot of debate over whether or not she was crying in the latter.

No, just the fire escape scene. I was one of the people who thought that Buffy had been drawn as teary-eyed in the park scene as well, but I know now I was wrong about that.

Timeline:

8.39: death of Giles, battle of the Hellmouth. Spike goes off in his bug spaceship.

(Two months go by)

Spike returns from outer space. Scene in the park.

(Four months go by)

8.40. Spike and Buffy talk on the fire escape.

(About 6 weeks go by)

9.01 Buffy invites Spike to a party at her new apartment.

Give himself an excuse not to pursue a relationship with her, because he thinks he'd only end up getting hurt if he did.

And see, I could believe that, but I would like to think that Spike was above that, i.e. if he still had feelings for her, wanted to be with her, and was assuming that she needed "normal" even though in the past Spike stated to the extent that normal was never going to be Buffy (reasonable assumption), he would talk to her at this point. If he's going around assuming what she wants after all the hell they dragged each other through, then he should wake up, talk to her, and maybe realize that he isn't necessary. Maybe that kind of realization would allow him to find new opportunities and new friends. That, of course, stems from my own fan wants and desires (i.e. for any character to act rationally at this point). Buffy seems to be all over the place motivation-wise, Willow is being weird, Spike is just simply there... Spike seems to be back in S7, remembering Previous Buffy's "I'm not ready for you to not be here," which I still count as one of the most horrible things she has said to him.

I do think Spike's in late S7 mode to a large extent, yes. He's convinced himself that Buffy will never love him that way; but with two more years' perspective he's more or less come to terms with that. He still wants to help her because it's the right thing to do and because he likesand respects her so much, not out of any romantic yearning.

...at least that's what he'd tell you himself. There are hints, especially from Eldre Koh, that Spike is fooling himself. But how much weight you put on that is still open to interpretation; it's not (yet) in the text.

As for Buffy, I think she's deliberately being shown as all over the place. The first arc is called 'Freefall', after all. Mostly, she's blaming herself for what happened in S8: for sleeping with Angel and accidentally causing an apocalypse, and for breaking the Seed which ended magic and destroyed the Slayer line. She's consumed by guilt and self-pity. She's avoiding Willow, again out of guilt and because she imagines Willow is blaming her. However, Buffy is also trying desperately to convince herself that everything's going to be all right - Riley is the one who calls her out on that.

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Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

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