fenderlove | Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

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Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

Quick word: I won't be responding with my own opinions to any comments left in this post, so feel free to answer honestly without fear that I shall pounce upon you. I may have further questions to ask.

How would you describe Spike's role in the comics in Season Nine? And to go further, what is his literal role in the comics? What has he literally been doing? What has been clearly asked of him by any other character or characters? The key words for all this are definitely- literal specifics. I'm looking for less interpretation "if you turn it sideways and squint and read between the lines" type of examples and more for just what has been presented.

Like I said above, I won't be responding with my own opinions. I'm just curious to find out if I've missed something in translation.

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I've read the webcomic, but from what I've gathered thus far, within Season Nine itself, Spike has no prime directive outside of doing what he thinks will protect Buffy and being ready to answer her calls if she needs him. She's not asking anything of him directly, but it's possible that Spike interpreted what Buffy said in the webcomic (no matter how irritated her face was drawn in that scene by Jeanty) as a sign that he was wanted, so he may not feel justified in leaving SF even if he wanted to... but that dives into speculative and interpretation territory on my part.

It's quite interesting to read all the answers I've gotten to my questions. Unfortunately, I don't have the consensus I was hoping for. You know, when comics are the medium best suited for getting into a character's head directly (thought boxes are amazing when well-used), it doesn't seem that they're truly being utilized for BtVS as represented by the varying degrees of motivations and reasonings for character behavior I've gotten. The main thing that is consist is- Spike will stay where Buffy is because of (insert reason A, B, C, or D). I'm just not sure what that means for him, if it's a positive or negative thing, or how it makes me feel as a fan based on my own expectations and views of the character.

Someone once used the metaphor of taffy to explain vampires/souls on BtVS/Ats. He/she said that the human form was like the wrapper on a piece of taffy (the soul). When a human dies, the taffy gets ripped out of its wrapper, but little bits of taffy remain stuck on it as taffy tends to do. Some wrappers have more taffy left on them than others for various reasons or just pure happenstance, so when a demonic "taffy" gets shoved into the old wrapper, it will have to merge with the old taffy... sometimes more seamlessly than others. ... The taffy metaphor worked a little for me because it put the demons and the souls on the same playing field, making what the Master said in "Welcome to the Hellmouth" about vampires having souls make more sense... Great, now I want taffy.

I'd actually like to explore what you wrote about, the vampiric demon being the id and the soul being the superego. What if souls were creatures from another dimension too, just benevolent whereas the demons are barbaric? Every teeny human is born and *poof* benevolent soul creature! Then, if the person is turned into a vampire, then the demon comes from its hellish dimension and takes over and the soul creature goes back to whatever cloud-y heavenly place it came from. Explains heaven (or at least explains the place Buffy remembers visiting after S5), explains hell, explains why souls and demons are slipperier than greased weasels...

Thanks. I appreciate it! :D

Is it weird that Spike's behavior seems like Season One!Angel? It sounds like he's lurking, popping out for banter and sage-like words, and then disappearing back in the shadows to protect Buffy from unknown things without her desiring him to do so or asking for his help (and apparently being Guy #1245 to be deciding that he knows what Buffy needs out of life). Sigh. I just pray he's not human after this because... that'd be the last pin in my cushion, I think.

I don't think he's human, but there's a theory that when he got Siphoned, his cold dead seed was "activated". And there's also a theory that he and Buffy had just had sexy times at the party. Which means: Baby Daddy! lol

Buffy's main love interest. I think he'll have a story arc that's linked with Buffy later in the season.

the vampiric demon being the id and the soul being the superego

I don't think it can be quite that simple, because of course ordinary humans have ids as well. It would get needlessly metaphysically complex if we had to assume that a human's id, ego and superego were all separate supernatural creatures co-inhabiting our brains... :)

(Although having said that, I vaguely recall that some belief systems, like the ancient Egyptian one, did claim that people have several different souls which perform discrete functions, and which go their separate ways upon death...)

But sure, as a first-stage approximation I think it's possible to compare a vampire's "demon" and a human's "soul" and say they're similar in function, but opposite in motivation/effects. And that expains why the Master would refer to vampire "souls" - he meant their demons.

You're not the first to compare Spike's behaviour now to Angel in the first season; so no, not weird. :)

As for him "deciding he knows what's best for Buffy", that's true to a point but I think you need to consider the history of his interaction with her:

The very first time he met her again after a two-year absence, she was still in loved-up afterGlow mood after having sex with Angel - something Spike knew had happened. She was also abrupt and impatient with him (and everyone else, to be fair), having other things on her mind (like the apocalypse she'd just inadvertently caused).

Later on, they have a long intimate conversation. We see Buffy's internal dialogue/fantasies and see she's very much still sexually attracted to Spike, but he completely misinterprets her mood and assumes she's still thinking about Angel.

They meet the resurrected Master, who says he thought Angelus would be there too. Spike mutters "Don't worry, he'll be around later to take credit for everything."

Battle is joined. Spike fights alongside Buffy, it's all very spuffyesque. Then Angel shows up, Buffy's face lights up with a smile, and Spike sees this and says resignedly "Right then".

At this point, Spike returns to his bug ship. He therefore doesn't know about Angel killing Giles and Buffy breaking the Seed, but he does see when the apocalype is over, and he immediately assumes it's because of something Buffy did. But instead of rejoining her, he decides he needs to give the good guys "time to lick their wounds", and they should chase after a huge escaping demon instead because "somebodfy has to stop that."

You said you don't want interpretation here, just facts; so I won't suggest possible motives why Spike should choose to make himself absent, after several days of him misinterpreting Buffy's feelings to be all about AngelAngelAngel and not about him. :)

At this stage, Spike is gone for two whole months, because the bug's spaceship has a malfunction and they can't get back any sooner. He presumably finds out what happened, but Buffy is still being snarky and stand-offish. We, the audience, know she's conflicted emotionally, hiding her tears at his kind words and pretending to brush him off; Spike apparently just thinks she's being weird.

So what they've set up, it seems to me, is a situation where Spike has good reason to assume that Buffy has no stronger feelings for him than friendship. He can see she's acting strangely - at the party she flirts heavily with him, but the next day she's back to snark and insults. However, he seems to be putting this down to her being under stress, isolated and in a bad life situation.

Given all that - and here I am going to be guily of interpretation - I think his talk to Koh about Buffy "needing normal right now" is partly him deciding what's best for her, yes - but it's also very much him trying to rationalise his own feelings. Give himself an excuse not to pursue a relationship with her, because he thinks he'd only end up getting hurt if he did.

It should probably be noted that the audience is not all in perfect agreement that Buffy is hiding her tears when Spike finally returns to Earth. The 'tear' in question is very unlike the big fat obvious tears that Jeanty draws when he wants to show a character getting emotional, and may in fact be nothing more than the corner of Buffy's eye. (Didn't someone ask Jane Espenson about Buffy crying in that story, and her response was basically "Huh?")

But the party was before the Siphoning, so Spike would have had to have slept with her then when his seed was still cold and dead. Is the theory that Buffy never... bathed or used the bathroom in a few weeks so that his seed was still in her and got activated somehow?

Give himself an excuse not to pursue a relationship with her, because he thinks he'd only end up getting hurt if he did.

And see, I could believe that, but I would like to think that Spike was above that, i.e. if he still had feelings for her, wanted to be with her, and was assuming that she needed "normal" even though in the past Spike stated to the extent that normal was never going to be Buffy (reasonable assumption), he would talk to her at this point. If he's going around assuming what she wants after all the hell they dragged each other through, then he should wake up, talk to her, and maybe realize that he isn't necessary. Maybe that kind of realization would allow him to find new opportunities and new friends. That, of course, stems from my own fan wants and desires (i.e. for any character to act rationally at this point). Buffy seems to be all over the place motivation-wise, Willow is being weird, Spike is just simply there... Spike seems to be back in S7, remembering Previous Buffy's "I'm not ready for you to not be here," which I still count as one of the most horrible things she has said to him.

Well, I was more looking for specifics about what has happened thus far, so do you think that Spike is the main love interest right at this moment or will be in the future? Buffy seems to have quite a few possible love interests available given her interactions with various people, but I haven't heard anything with specifics to lead the audience to believe that Spike and Buffy are anywhere close to restarting a relationship, so I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Someone asked Jeanty if it was a tear after I did my "explanation of 'Jeanty Tears' post," and he said it was most definitely not a tear. It was the corner of Buffy's eye (Jeanty draws it that way quite a bit, but when he draws tears they have a more blue tint to them in most cases).

It would get needlessly metaphysically complex

I think it's already gotten to that point with the story. Magic comes from the earth, no magic comes from other dimensions... It's all so MacGuffin-y.

I think that Spike is written to be her love interest. We see her flirting with him in #1 but Spike plays it cool. We see Spike as the only one having Buffy's back in #2. We see a scene dedicated to discussing Spike's feelings for Buffy in #4: He's been distancing himself because he believes Buffy needs normality right now after the whole thing with Twilight last season, but he still cares about her. We see a very powerful scene with Severin sucking both Buffy and Spike's powers, them staring at each other afraid for each other, not to mention a tear in Spike's eye.

There are also a couple of Spuffy covers for future issues: #6 has Spuffy fighting back to back. #7 has Spuffy looking like a normal couple.

I say Spike is her love interest this season. There might be – big emphasis on "might" - a triangle between Spike, Buffy, Detective Dowling, but I won't pay much attention to it. The season has been setting Spike as the best guy for Buffy.

I'm trying to work things out with what you're saying and what other people have written, so bear with me and please understand that I'm just trying to figure out the plot and the arcs here.

We see her flirting with him in #1 but Spike plays it cool.
From what I've read from others, Buffy also flirts with Riley in the issue and possibly Xander. Also, I've read that Spike may believe that Buffy is teasing him when she's flirting with him. What is it that makes her flirting with Spike more relevant? Is it how the scene is set up or the words used?

We see Spike as the only one having Buffy's back in #2.
How so? What exactly is going on?

You mention Spike discussing his feelings for Buffy, but has Buffy made any mentions of her romantic feelings for anyone at the moment in any of the issues?

not to mention a tear in Spike's eye.
Couldn't Spike be crying because of immense pain? I don't know how Severin works, but it sounds like it would be terribly painful to be Siphoned.

There are also a couple of Spuffy covers for future issues: #6 has Spuffy fighting back to back.
There were a lot of Bangel-centric covers in S8, so what makes this cover more relevant? Again, I'm just trying to find out specifics from people.

#7 has Spuffy looking like a normal couple.
Is there an expectation that Spike and Buffy will be a normal couple, i.e. is there an expectation that this cover is being literal? Comic covers usually have very little to do with the interior of the comic unless the publisher is trying to sell something (i.e. Buffy's arm), so do you believe that the reason they have this cover is because they are going to "sell" Spuffy? Again, there were a lot of covers last season that made the Bangels very happy, but they didn't get what they want. What specifically makes you as a member of the audience believe that this cover is a sign that Spike and Buffy are going to either be starting a relationship or begin starting to start a relationship?

ETA: Sorry to resend twice. I had some grammar issues, and I needed to clarify myself in a few places.

That's not the scene I was referring to, though. I meant when Buffy and Spike are on the fire escape, and he addresses her with his "kind words". She's definitely crying there, but she hides her face with her hands then abruptly turns her back on him and clambers back inside as fast as she can.

Remember the timing: that fire escape scene was published before the Magical Mystery Tour webcomic, but chronologically it takes place after it.

At the risk of offending people, I'm not sure if they've thought it through in that level of detail. :)

(See also, the people suggesting that it's Angel's baby, and so Buffy has been pregnant for the last seven months without noticing anything odd...)

I do think Spike's in late S7 mode to a large extent, yes. He's convinced himself that Buffy will never love him that way; but with two more years' perspective he's more or less come to terms with that. He still wants to help her because it's the right thing to do and because he likesand respects her so much, not out of any romantic yearning.

...at least that's what he'd tell you himself. There are hints, especially from Eldre Koh, that Spike is fooling himself. But how much weight you put on that is still open to interpretation; it's not (yet) in the text.

As for Buffy, I think she's deliberately being shown as all over the place. The first arc is called 'Freefall', after all. Mostly, she's blaming herself for what happened in S8: for sleeping with Angel and accidentally causing an apocalypse, and for breaking the Seed which ended magic and destroyed the Slayer line. She's consumed by guilt and self-pity. She's avoiding Willow, again out of guilt and because she imagines Willow is blaming her. However, Buffy is also trying desperately to convince herself that everything's going to be all right - Riley is the one who calls her out on that.

I read it as you referring to both scenes - first the fire escape, where there's little doubt she's crying, and then the later scene when the bugs drop him off in the park and Buffy is waiting for him. IIRC there was quite a lot of debate over whether or not she was crying in the latter.

No, just the fire escape scene. I was one of the people who thought that Buffy had been drawn as teary-eyed in the park scene as well, but I know now I was wrong about that.

Timeline:

8.39: death of Giles, battle of the Hellmouth. Spike goes off in his bug spaceship.

(Two months go by)

Spike returns from outer space. Scene in the park.

(Four months go by)

8.40. Spike and Buffy talk on the fire escape.

(About 6 weeks go by)

9.01 Buffy invites Spike to a party at her new apartment.

Buffy flirting with Spike at the party - it's drawn as much more intense than the other situations she's shown in at the party. She's leaning towards him, smiling and gazing into his eyes while her hand is playing with her hair. It's practically an illustration from a Manual of Body Language, in the chapter on sexual attraction. :)

Secondly, as I interpret it she flirts with him first, but he replies coolly and doesn't respond in kind. After that, we see Buffy engrossed in conversation, messing about or flirting with several other men at the party. We now know she had sex with someone there as well. You can interpret that either as her wanting Spike but settling for someone else when he turned her advances down; or her just generally looking for someone and hitting on Spike because he was available. I suspect myself that Spike assumes the second, but Buffy meant the first: but that's only speculation.

has Buffy made any mentions of her romantic feelings for anyone at the moment in any of the issues?

No. Rather, the point is made that she's drifting along with no plans for the future (or trying not to think about it).

Though she does tell Willow in a Slayer-dream, "I don't want you to go. Things are starting to get better. There's so much I'm figuring out about my life right now. I need you" - but she probably doesn't mean that romantically. :)

Pretty much. Yes.

Actually, it hasn't been a few weeks since the party. It's been just a couple of days or something. So the timeline works since conception can happen up to 5 days after sex.

Check out the timeline. The siphoning happened just a couple of days or so after the party, so it's a viable theory. The Angel space frak theory is just ridiculous on so many levels.

Wait, it's only been five days, and Buffy/the writers are trusting a home pregnancy test and she's got morning sickness?

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Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

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