Question: Spike's Role in the Comics?

[fenderlove]

Quick word: I won't be responding with my own opinions to any comments left in this post, so feel free to answer honestly without fear that I shall pounce upon you. I may have further questions to ask.

How would you describe Spike's role in the comics in Season Nine? And to go further, what is his literal role in the comics? What has he literally been doing? What has been clearly asked of him by any other character or characters? The key words for all this are definitely- literal specifics. I'm looking for less interpretation "if you turn it sideways and squint and read between the lines" type of examples and more for just what has been presented.

Like I said above, I won't be responding with my own opinions. I'm just curious to find out if I've missed something in translation.

Comments

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

He compares it to the scene between them at the end of Fool For Love, though. So even if it doesn't come nearly as close, it'll still be satisfying. (Jeanty does tend to exaggerate! But he doesn't lie...)

I don't mind if there aren't ever declarations of love in the comics, cathartic as they might be. So far, we have a Buffy who isn't afraid of telling Spike that she appreciates him or that she'd miss him, and we have a Spike who's said on his own that he has feelings for her. If they're going to utterly destroy all of that, it's going to take a lot more than a season (short of the very doubtfully repeated Twangel route). Instead, they're giving us Buffy and Spike, working together on equal footing. I have no problems with that, regardless of whether or not it turns to romance.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Honest answer. I don't think they'll try and destroy it, but rather play it down to the amount It will kinda seem like a reset of their past relationship in that in reality they've both moved on.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

*hoots* :D

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

You know, I think that that scene pretty much sums up everything I've learned about the comics thus far.

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

I'm okay with there not being romance, but I'm doubtful that we won't get at least a little. If they wanted to reset the relationship, why would they have had a segment with Spike talking about his feelings for Buffy? Why have a two-issue arc with three of the covers (technically four, if you include the tiny Buffy on the Nikki Wood cover) featuring Spike and Buffy, two more than a little fanservice-y?

It just seems like really dumb storytelling to have such a focus on the characters as a 'ship and not explore it at least a little. And they've done dumb storytelling before, yes, but the relationships have usually been well-played. (The only real relationship we saw develop over S8 was slow and subtle but made sense. And Andrew Chambliss writes for TVD, where they specialize in relationships like Spike's and Buffy's- plus, he identifies as a fan of the ship.)

So I think that negativity is understandable, considering parts of last season, but this isn't something I'm negative about. :)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

He's 'heard rumblings' (No. Seriously).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Well, she did say she might miss him if he were dead...

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

But no say as to what rumblings or who was doing the rumbling? What's to say that these aren't the normal "There's a new white hat in town" rumblings of the demonic community? Why are these rumblings special? I'm going to go ahead and assume that these things will probably never be explained in the comic, just as it was never explained by Buffy needed cannon fodder decoys in S8 to go down into holes to die for her cause.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

*gasp* Yes, so thats alright then eh? *g*

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Wait, she said she'd miss him if he were dead instead of if he went away or left SF? That actually sounds sorta rude... or just another example of Buffy having no tact whatsoever. I mean, Spike's already dead. He is an undead Englishman. He is an ex-poet. He has ceased to be. He is no longer pining for the fjords... Well, maybe he does pine for the fjords.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

He seems to be somewhere between Buffy's sidekick and the more independent vampire he's been in the past few years. Not much seems to be asked of him, he's just kind of expected to be around.

ETA: Which, to me, speaks well of his role. Even though it may not be romantic (and I strongly suspect it won't), there is a relationship there that's as important as anyone else's - with the possible exception of Willow who is now gone for quite a while.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

People who are into the comics a bit more than I usually am follow the discussions on Dark Horse and any interviews that Jeanty or anyone else give. So it's possible to get hints of what's to come, if not specifics. Someone (who would know) has said somewhere that Spike will have a role in her life - we just don't know what it's to be.

[rahirah]

Context: Buffy says she wishes that destroying the Seed had taken away all magic, so that vampires would disappear and she'd no longer be the Slayer. Spike says that if that happened, he'd be dead and she wouldn't be as much fun. Buffy replies that fun is over-rated, but she supposes she'd miss him if he were dead.

[rahirah]

Apparently they were rumblings about the appearance of Severin, the villain of the first arc, and also possibly about the appearance of Spike's new demon friend.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

So it just starts out as Buffy having no tact. Didn't destroying the Seed actually take away all the magic already? Did she mean all the things already effected by magic after all the regular magic got sucked out?

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Okay, but where did the rumblings come from? Demonic community in general? Are El Dre Koh and Severin (or whatever other Harry Potter reference can be worked into the character names) threats to Buffy in what ways?

[rahirah]

The comic doesn't go into any detail about Spike's sources. My take was that Spike was just picking up general demon gossip about someone gunning for Buffy. Eldre Koh and Severin are both looking for Buffy, for different reasons, and the comic made a half-hearted effort to do a fakeout where it looks at first as if Koh is the villain and Severin a good(ish) guy, but it wasn't difficult to see through. Severin was a threat to Buffy because he wanted to drain her powers - he was working for Simone, the evol slayer from S8.

Not sure what else you're asking for!

[rahirah]

The seed only eliminated magic that has to be channeled from elsewhere, apparently, by closing Earth off from other dimensions. So witches and wizards have lost their powers, and no new slayers can be called. Newly turned vampires are mindless beasts, because the demon that animates them can no longer get to Earth and fully inhabit their bodies, but must remote control them from their home hell dimension. But existing Slayers and vampires keep their powers.

i.e. it's arbitrary, makes no real sense at all, and it's set up so the writers can do whatever they want.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Does Severin get stronger by draining people's powers? 'Cause if he can drain power out of a Slayer, then I wouldn't want to be around him at all. I'm imagining him draining Simone the minute her back is turned while screaming, "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!" *cue Queen's "Princes of the Universe" theme song*

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

You know, I read a fic one time that said that the reason that Spike had so much of his humanity left was because his body was inhabited by a wee baby demon instead of one of the scary fully matured ones. Then again, Spike had survival skills, cunning, and agility, and if that's what you get from having a baby demon, then the bumbling newly-risen vamps we saw on the show got screwed by having full grown ones. I really liked that fic though. I have no idea where I was going with this, but what you said reminded me of it.

I just keep thinking that the writers have never and will never understand what in God's name the vampires of this universe are. One minute they have humanity, the next minute they're raving animals. The show has tumbled back and forth about what they are and what they mean. If Buffy's Lie to Me description of "The demon sets up shop in your old house, and it walks like you and it has your memories, but it's not you" is true, then why are vampires troubled by their human lives? Why do they care? Why can their feelings be hurt by things that happened when they were human? Why do they have feelings at all? It makes the case of Angel's soul all the more baffling and confusing. It's Liam's soul added to a demon that somehow doesn't act anything like the demon acted before when really human souls seem to make very little difference to human behavior. That's all compounded by Spike who remains relatively unfazed by having a soul at the point that he gets one. Either Spike and (God help me) Harmony are just more evolved vampire beings, or something amiss. And now the vampires are remote controlled zombies even though if all the walls are closed down so the demons can't get through, how can they be remotely controlling anything? This is the kind of thing that Lewis Black said will make your brain explode if you think too hard about it.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

why are vampires troubled by their human lives? Why do they care? Why can their feelings be hurt by things that happened when they were human? Why do they have feelings at all?

The interpretation that works best for me:

The 'demon' controlling a vampire is little more than pure id. It has hungers and desires, it can fear and hate, and it's cruel and sadistic. But by itself it has no memories, so it's difficult to call it sapient. Instead, like a parasite it uses its host human's memories as its own. That's why vampires often take on the personalities of the human they once were: the demon doesn't know any different, and so it can only see the world through the filter of the human's memories and experiences. They shape its personality; but the demon's own primal urges in turn shape and distort the personality in a different direction.

(A soul quite possibly works the same way: it's the vital spark that animates a human, but by itself it has no intelligence or memory, only a set of urges and desires. Unlike a demon, though, the soul's urges are mostly benevolent and empathetic and humane.)

[rahirah]

Yes, he does get more powerful, but the power boost only lasts for awhile - he has to suck someone else to keep it up.

[rahirah]

Well, I did say it made no sense at all. *g*

[angearia.livejournal.com]

In the short webcomic by Jane Espenson, when Spike returns from outerspace, Buffy asks him if he's "home" for good now. So, I'd say she's given him strong implications for wanting him around. At least, in the sense that this is "home" aka where she thinks he belongs.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

This got long...


In 8.40 Spike tells Buffy that he's "keeping his ear to the ground" and has heard "rumblings" that "somebody's coming for you". He doesn't know who or what.

He tries to be supportive of Buffy, but she pushes him away with sarcasm. ("Wow. Thank God you've got my back." "Why did we ever break up?") Spike responds with a supportive talk about how wonderful she is, which causes Buffy to burst into tears (which she tries to hide) and leave hastily.

Skip ahead to the first issue of Season 9. Buffy invited Spike to her housewarming party by text. She flirts with him, but Spike is detached ("Hmm. Any chance I can make you beg?" "Not this year".). After that, she doesn't interact with him at the party at all that we see. He's shown to be on very friendly terms with Willow, talks to Buffy's male flatmate Tumble, and in one panel is apparently making out with a random girl.

Next night, Buffy and Willow are patrolling together when Spike joins them. He repeats that Buffy is being targeted, but has no new information. Buffy is impatient and dismissive; she doesn't like him "protecting" her. Later on, though, she admits to herself that she's started watching her back because of his warnings.

In 9.02, Buffy is arrested: the police are looking for a serial killer and suspect her. She goes on the run, hoping to find the killer herself. Spike tracks her down ("You'e a hard girl to find"). That's when they have the conversation where Buffy says "I'd probably miss you". She's looking away from him as she says that. Spike replies "Bloody hell you would" and says he's still planning to help her: at this Buffy smiles, turns to look at him and says, "Thanks, Spike".

Next issue, we see Spike at work trying to find who is "targeting" Buffy. He beats up a demon estate agent (!) until he reveals that a new demon came to town looking for Buffy. Spike tracks this demon down. (It's while he's doing this that Buffy texts him inviting him to a Scooby meeting.)

Spike finds the demon (Eldre Koh), but he turns out to be on Buffy's side. He wants to help her against "the Siphon", an entity which can "rip mystical energy from all he touches", and whose prophesied coming is feared. Spike and Koh team up, and engage in some male bonding on the way back to town.

Koh wants to know why a vampire would want to help a Slayer. Spike say that he and Buffy "go way back" and that he would "do pretty much anything to keep her safe". Koh pushes for more information on their relationship: Spike is defensive and avoids answering directly.

"Things are not as you'd like them with the Slayer."
"Sorry if you're looking for a supernatural soap, but there's nothing sudsy to tell here. After everything that Buffy's been through, she needs one thing, and that's normal. Which I am decidedly not."

Buffy, meanwhile, is fighting the Siphon. Just to make matters worse, the warehouse they're in is surrounded by the police. Spike and Koh make their way inside where they're confronted by Dowling, a homicide detective. Spike goes into vampface to warn Dowling to back off, then Spike and Koh join the battle.

It doesn't go well. The Siphon knocks Koh out with a single blast of his powers; Spike is conscious but down on the ground. He then grabs both Spike and Buffy and starts draining their energy at the same time - all the power he's draining makes him stronger.

Spike and Buffy are helpless, held at arm's length facing each other; she says, "Spike... don't...". he says Buffy's name, and a tear leaks from the corner of his eye. At this point Dowling comes back and saves the day by shooting the Siphon. (Which doesn't kill him, but disrupts his power enough for Spike and Buffy to escape.)

While Buffy is talking to the police Spike takes the opportuity to slip away. Koh tells him Buffy will want to talk to him, but Spike isn't willing, for the reasons he gave earlier - he thinks Buffy "needs normal".

And that's where we left it with Spike.